“JW Defense” YouTube channel takes aim at apostates
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The JW Defense YouTube channel aims to "defend Jehovah's Witnesses from false and misleading claims made by apostates and opposers"

The JW Defense YouTube channel aims to “defend Jehovah’s Witnesses from false and misleading claims made by apostates and opposers”

Few people would envision that an organization with 8 million publicity agents in 230+ lands, a zero-tolerance approach to dissenters, and a recent windfall of 1 Billion dollars from property sales, is in need of a defender on YouTube.

And yet that is precisely what Watchtower now has.

Step forward “JW Defense” – a new YouTube channel dedicated to “defending Jehovah’s Witnesses from false and misleading claims by apostates and opposers.”

Quite what these fallacious claims are has yet to be clarified, but JW Defense has made a spirited start nonetheless with a video attacking “Apostates of Jehovah’s Organization.”

This article originally showed an embedded version of JW Defense’s video. He has since removed it from YouTube without making any apologies, but it can still be seen in my rebuttal videos below.

If the above video sounds familiar, that is because the narration is an almost verbatim copy of parts of the “human apostates” talk from the 2013 District Convention. This website has already commented on how this talk employed the same “name-calling” strategy that Watchtower has previously denounced as a propaganda tactic.

Unable to resist such a gilt-edged opportunity to confront a Watchtower apologist on YouTube, I set about making a series of three video rebuttals to the claims made by JW Defense. Here is the end product…

A key part of the above rebuttal was my observation of a delicious irony.

JW Defense repeatedly accuses so-called apostates of being liars, bent on deceiving people. You would think that, in making such a bold claim, JW Defense would be only too ready to unleash an avalanche of evidence demonstrating the lies that are spread by apostates. After all, to make an accusation without evidence is to risk slandering the one you are accusing. And yet, not a single piece of evidence is offered in the 8-minute video.

JW Defense thus trespasses Watchtower’s own definition of an apostate as elaborated in a 1961 Watchtower, which says (bold is mine)…

“From the words of Jesus it is apparent that the evil slave is a traitor. How does he show it? By beating his fellow slaves and by associating with those who are disreputable in God’s sight, ‘the confirmed drunkards,’ spiritually so. Does he beat his fellows with a literal rod? No, for the laws of the land would not permit that. Rather, he seeks to cause pain to his fellow slaves by hard and bitter speech, by slander, false propaganda, by assertions for which no proof is given nor indeed can be given. This he does both by the spoken and the printed word. He is like Diotrephes, concerning whom the apostle John wrote: He ‘likes to have the first place among them, [and] does not receive anything from us with respect . . . chattering about us with wicked words.’—3 John 9, 10.” (w61 7/1 p. 410)

Having pointed out key flaws such as the above in JW Defense’s video, I “threw down the gauntlet” (as it were) by repeatedly challenging him to a video debate, either by phone or Skype. This challenge was further reiterated in a direct message that I sent to JW Defense via YouTube.

To my surprise, a lengthy reply was received, which said in part…

“In my video titled ‘Welcome to JW Defense’, I explain that the channel is ‘made by a Jehovah’s Witness for Jehovah’s Witnesses and anyone interested in learning the Truth about what the Bible really teaches’.

Therefore, the video ‘Apostates of Jehovah’s Organization’ takes the assumed position that JW’s have the Truth and are indeed Jehovah’s Organization. From that position, the points presented in the video are logical and scriptural (if indeed JW’s are in fact Jehovah’s organization). Since this video is primarily directed towards other JW’s, I didn’t see the need to add more information other than what was presented at the district convention talk…”

JW Defense concluded by asking that I remove my video rebuttal series from YouTube, saying…

“I’d appreciate it if you didn’t continue your response to my video and if you can take down the response you currently have, as I feel that it is not necessary considering this clarification. Considering the info is essentially the same, you can always respond to the actual talk given at the District Convention, an audio recording is currently on YouTube.”

I have since replied to the above by pointing out that, if this man’s target audience is Jehovah’s Witnesses ONLY, then there is surely no necessity in regurgitating material from a District Convention talk on YouTube. Or does he feel that the Governing Body’s efforts in reaching all Witnesses via the District Convention arrangement are somehow lacking, and must be supplemented by his efforts?

As to the request for me to take down my rebuttal, I have declined. I find it intriguing that, having boldly ridden to the rescue of the Watch Tower Society, this man is now effectively hiding behind its trouser leg by asking me to redirect my arguments towards the organization he has set out to defend.

My reply to JW Defense also sought clarification as to whether he will be responding to my YouTube challenge. Thus far, no answer is forthcoming.

 

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63 Responses to “JW Defense” YouTube channel takes aim at apostates

  1. zeebo says:

    Nice one John. Whilst this horrible organisation may have dominion over it’s followers, when it trespasses into areas where free speech and ‘independent thinking’ are allowed (like youtube), then we have every right to blast them with the truth.

  2. zeebo says:

    And are comments enabled o JW Defense videos???.. No. Guess we have to write to Bethel..

  3. Rowland Nelken says:

    Does not this guy realise the absurdity of starting with the understanding that JWs are God’s organisation?

    I could use that tactic to demonstrate that the BBC is staffed exclusively by bisexual flying pink unicorns. My argument would be underpinned by the presumption that the BBC is in fact staffed exclusively by bisexual flying pink unicorns!

    I would brush aside all objections by explaining that my vid. is directed solely to all those possessing that said ‘truth’, namely that the BBC is staffed exclusively by bisexual flying pink unicorns!

  4. Mick says:

    Ahhaha. I love it when J Witnesses try to stick up for their cult. Nice one Cedars. Good point about the free speech on youtube too- would like to see individuals like this try to defend their videos if they were to leave comments open. Haa.

  5. Erik says:

    Why does the author even feel the need to put this out there? Not to count service time right? Because it’s intended primarily for JWs right?

  6. Just Thinking says:

    What is even better than that is that the WT corporation brings them down somehow because their own members infringe their own organization’s copyright :)

  7. Izzy says:

    John, like always, you turn every rock up side down to see if what is being said has any truth or validity. The narrator of the this video is so partial towards JW beliefs, that he doesn’t realize how ridiculous his attempt’s are, to address his view on apostates to everyone on YouTube. YouTube has a large audience and it would be of benefit to him, if he could provide any factual arguments towards his claims on apostates. The fact that he left them out is because there aren’t any to be shared.
    John, thank you for your wonderful work that you do, and the time you take to demonstrate to all sincere independent thinkers, that there is another side of the argument.

  8. Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

    Hello folks! Merry non denominational winter holiday to you all!

    After sitting through JW Defence’s poorly spelt and slanderous video, it was a relief to watch Cedars’ 3 rebuttals.

    Well done, John! I could not have done better myself.

    Well, as an atheist apostate, I find it kind of tricky to draw of followers as they all have the disadvantage of believing in God! I get so angry that I can’t have complete, unaccountable control over 8 million people that I make up lies about……

    I could go on, but it would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

    I do feel a little sorry for the poor sap. This individual is rebuffed by his or her own organisation.

    I wearily assume that no examples of my lying, drawing away followers, etc has subsequently been provided?

    On a personal note, I am bitterly disappointed that I can’t be your disciple, John!!! I have begun growing my “Cedars Beard” and everything!!!!!!

    Thanks for what you do.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  9. Ó como eu gostaria de entender plenamente o inglês!!!!! Esse vídeo deve está bombando em todo o mundo e, eu, por não compreender muito do que o irmão diz no vídeo, estou como que ‘fora desse mundo’.

    Lamentável. Vou entrar numa escola de inglês ano que vem . . .

    Parabéns, irmão Cedars.

    Apóstolo TDS desde São Paulo, Brasil

  10. That’s one of the big problems with Witnesses, they don’t want to hear a dissenting opinion. They’re all about the output. “This is what you need to think, this what you believe, this is how you feel, we demand you believe this thing, everything is good, and now we’re outta here.” Look at the Watchtower study… your answers are right there in the paragraph, and don’t you dare stray from what’s been provided. Try asking them a real question at the door and they leave, because they’re looking for “honest-hearted ones,” meaning ones who will swallow their bull without questions.

    The problem is, how can they really address the concerns and questions of people if they don’t listen? JWs never listened to any of my concerns growing up, so they never got answered, so I’m not in. Rather than getting angry and resorting to ad hominen arguments, why not answer those questions? His video series even quotes 1 Peter 3:15 (which ironically is also the subtitle of my blog), “…always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you…” Yet, does he make a defense or does he just ask you to take your questions elsewhere?

    As the kids would say, fail.

  11. Jmon75 says:

    Imaginary defense of a ridiculous belief system based upon an imaginary jewish man.

  12. Jmon75 says:

    How bad is it that the sheep are defending the Shepherds? Those small minded people in the Kingdom Halls are feeling the need to defend their beliefs. I think it’s a good thing because they see one of two things.

    1. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society needs to be defended.

    2. They are obviously aware of critical sentiments toward their beliefs.

    The WTBTS B.S. unravels so quickly and thoroughly that even a slight awareness of criticism will cause the suppressed questions in their heads out for a real answer. Which can be easily found…………… outside of WTBTS propaganda.

  13. Acadianlion says:

    I wonder how long this Utube “service” will last. The site indicates it will present the lead articles of The Watchtower and Awake magazines each month. This is copyright infringement unless it is specifically authorized by The Watchtower Organization, just as reprinting of a letter by JW Survey was perceived as copyright infringement.

    Thus either the organization knows of an approves of JW Defense (and perhaps finances it), or JW Defense is essentially infringing on JW copyrights. The organization has its own website. Won’t it be a bit surprising if JW Defense is “allowed” to continue to be a jw.org “megaphone”?

  14. ElearElda says:

    ElearElda: “All accusations of lying are without any examples. In what points the apostates really lie?
    I am a former elder but still JW, but I faded and I will never come back. WTS will cover up much more than you probably even know [or even had right to know]. For example if an elder commit serious sin like fornication but hide it for more than couple of years, then confess to the body of elders, then there won’t be ANY judicial committee and he even won’t be deleted as an elder – nobody will ever know… [it's in "Shepherd the Flock of God" - the secret book of elders that you shouldn't even know about its existence!]. So even your view of the organization is far from complete. Why you accuse people of lying without any examples? It’s a slander! It’s nothing to do with 1Pe 3:15 “deep respect”.

    HE RESPONDED IMMEDIATELY

    JW Defence: “The video series on my channel will expose all apostate lies one topic at a time. I assume you felt betrayed when you learned all the “lies” you were being told by the society. I hope you have the same reaction when you find out all the real lies the apostates have told that you ended up believing and realize that the society never lied to you in the first place. Please stay tuned to future videos. Its not slander. Proof of lies are soon to come.”

    ElearElda: “We shall see… But you won’t find any proof in WTS literature. About many things you can’t know. I suppose you are not an elder or even ministerial servant. :-) So you are not in position to teach me. You saw only one side of arguments. There are also other about WTS – much darker than you imagine..

    How about any comment about not deleted elder without judicial committee?? Is it right? Have you heard about it? THAT IS ONLY ONE FACT…”

    No answer either for at least 4 hours.
    That’s just another frustrated kid.

  15. Christian Sparlock Freedom says:

    Thanks for a well reasoned response to blatant slander.

  16. Ordered by Melshizzydek says:

    Thank you Cedars!

    The fact that a defense video had to be made is evidence that the “apostate” rhetoric is taking root, making in roads, or creating enough curiosity that there there is a need to defend the organization and mobilize other witnesses against a burgeoning group of witnesses, ex-witnesses etc with very valid questions about our doctrine.

    Jehovah can fight his own battles…. He doesn’t need Youtube of Facebook.

    The problem is the opposition to dissenting opinions and opposing viewpoints that has been standard operating protocol for the GB right up to……. (wait for it)….. the proliferation of the internet. Ta daa!

    Thanks to the internet other witnesses are now realizing that there are other Curious and discerning humans who Jeh created with independent will and god given freedoms just like themselves, with questions about things we have been taught over the years and things that in our heart of hearts just doesn’t feel/seem right.

    Before the internet, we couldn’t ask questions or show our “ignorance” for fear we may appear to be turning away from the faith and be exposed.

    But thanks to Google…… we have found that there are others like ourselves that feel the same and there are scores of communities of people.

    That is dangerous to the society and needs to be squelched before it spreads..

    LOL!

  17. Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

    Referring to “apostates”, the GB wrote
    “They seem inoculated with madness, Satanic hydrophobia [rabies]. Some of them smite us and then claim that we did the smiting. They are ready to say and write contemptible falsities and to stoop to do meanness.” (*** w94 7/1 p. 12 par. 11 At Which Table Are You Feeding? ***)!
    It is stupid to witness Jehovah being so harsh with “apostates”!! It reminds me how he killed his grand children according to the Watchtower, he killed Nephilim who were from sexual union of “the sons of the true God” who materialized and took “the daughters of men,” (http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=w07+6%2F1+pp.+4-7)

  18. Арам Азорин says:

    ДЖОН!!! давай по_русски!!(ru). в России люди очень доверчивые!!! мой блог https://plus.google.com/105159374532238895309/posts/p/pub?partnerid=ogpy0

  19. Ordered by Melshizzydek says:

    alexjamesisnotmyrealname, WORD!

  20. Ordered by Melshizzydek says:

    Jmon75, WORD!

  21. Kyle Racki says:

    So far I haven’t seen any evidence that I’m an apostate:

    1. Luke 6:46 – “Why do you call me LORD?” I don’t claim in any way to be a follower of Jesus or call him Lord. As far as I, or anyone else knows, he has been dead for 2,000 years.

    2. Acts 20:30 “Draw away disciples after themselves” I have no intention, nor do I draw disciples. In fact, I don’t want any disciples for myself. 2 Peter 2:1 “Quietly bring in sects” Nope, I haven’t formed any sects that I know of, nor am I a part of a sect. I practice no religion at all.

    3. “They claim to serve Jehovah” Again, I don’t claim to serve any made up, non-existent gods, including Jehovah.

    Wow, thank you Watchtower for proving to me from the Bible that I am not an apostate! Now just tell your followers to stop calling me one.

    Nice article and video John.

  22. Markw1509 says:

    Thanks for putting up this riposte to the shameful JW defence You Tube video.
    I cannot believe that I once believed that stuff.
    Thank you for showing us once again why this organisation simply cannot be representing the true God.
    I’d love to hear how the originators of JW Defence actually back up their slander.

    • Rowland Nelken says:

      It will be interesting to see, if indeed it will be possible to know, whether the JW bosses will get wind of this defense joker. He is surely breaking the rules by going freelance, even if he is simply parroting the official JW bilge.

  23. JBob says:

    Rowland, please do not mock sacred things. The BBC’s bisexual flying pink unicorns, which literature has repeatedly highlighted makes them bisexual pink pegacorns, are “truth” and we should be thankful that we live in an age where flying pink unicorns are being brought to our attention…

  24. Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

    This is a blessing.

    JW Defence is either:

    1. An unauthorised site, in breach of copyright and should therefore be removed.

    Or:

    2. An authorised site, set up by the WTBTS, as a tool to disseminate their version of things.

    So, if we complain to the web hoster that JW Defence is in breach of copyright, and it is removed we know it’s a lone wolf. If it isn’t, then we have the WTBTS acting in an extremely underhand way.

    Either way, we win!

    How’s that for a non denominational winter festival present?

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  25. JBob says:

    Many of you recall a few months back I posted a “family tree” of the free-thinking and anarchist influences that led to Adventism and later Russell’s take on it. I also highlighted that the Branch Davidians (Shepherd’s Rod) that led to Koresh and Waco, TX were a break off of 7DA with its focus on 144,000 (an obsession found among most Millenial Adventist groups). A new schism/offshoot…

    [Edit - link removed. Sorry JBob, I know you mean well but if that's not an evangelical link I don't know what is! - Cedars]

  26. zeebo says:

    Арам Азорин – Please can you make contact with me? My wife is Russian and in the cult and i find the language difference is hard to get her out. I would like your help.

    Арам Азорин – Пожалуйста, вы можете вступить в контакт со мной? Моя жена русская и в культе, и я нахожу разница язык трудно вытащить ее. Я хотел бы в вашей помощи.

    • Rowland Nelken says:

      I am based in Moscow and have a working knowledge of Russian. If I can be of help in releasing your wife from the JW cult please let me know.

  27. Mick says:

    I’m loving the comments you’re getting on this post cedars. Its refreshing to read intelligent people’s thoughts and responses to this sort of thing…with plenty of humour mixed throughout. I think the jokes only come naturally when reading of stories like this because sometimes the whole religion seems like a big joke…If only it weren’t so serious for so many still! No offense to all, but im glad cedars keeps filtering out other denominations’ propaganda from appearing on here also. Keeps it a top-notch blog :)

  28. JBob says:

    Not a problem Cedars. I only offered it as more proof of the wacky.

  29. JBob says:

    Mick, I appreciate your reminder that this is a serious thing–a matter of improving one’s emotional and physical health from Watchtower stresses.

    On this Youtube apologist profile states he is not “endorsed by JW.org”.

    In casually examining some of the more odd defenses–”numerology,” I note his defense is aimed at seizing and morphing the questions and charges into a JW propaganda tool.

    It indicates the poster has little knowledge of the real JW history of using some very arcane sources and twisting sources when none are available, or is diabolical in using Watchtower tactics to distort facts.

    The charge on numerology from dissenters and some orthodox sources is that Russell used pyramids and other “occult” ideas to prove the chronology projecting his end-time dates. The video prattles on and on regarding the significance of numbers in Scripture and never acknowledges sordid Watchtower history–greatly influenced by earlier Millerite authors and thinkers–of using pyramids and numerology for divination purposes. Video ignores some significant numbers in Watchtower beliefs–144,000, 2520, 1260, etc, etc.–while inserting a reference to Kabbalah using Hebrew/Aramaic letters as numbers. This was documented by the FFoC Iraneus documenting the numbers=letters of 666 and name of Ieosus as 888, although using Greek letters for the latter.

    This is typical JW tactic–build a false replica of the concept, then destroy the fake to discredit target concept.

    The approach & style used in argument and debate has a history back to John Thomas and Henry Grew.

  30. Jmon75 says:

    OK, it’s a pagan holiday that I am celebrating for only the 4th time since my release from my self inflicted bondage.

    So my gift to all of you is a joke.

    What is a Jehovah’s Witnesses favorite rock band?

    The Doors………………………………….. (break on through)

  31. Shakeem says:

    There is something very typical about all these JW apologists’ YouTube channels:

    1. They never reveal their identities.

    2. They delete their accounts when losing a debate to an apostate.

    3. They never present any evidence (outside of the Bible) to support their claims and accusations, unless, of course, it has been tampered with.

    4. The information presented in their videos is all style and no substance. (Made to be accepted by JW’s but is rejected by the public at large.)

    5. They disable the comments feature on their YouTube pages. (Primarily to keep “apostates” from responding or asking questions.)

  32. Thinking of leaving says:

    If (and there is a big question mark over this) the WTBTS is behind this then they have made a serious error in judgment. One way to find out will be if the site is taken down due to copy right infringements. They are on very dangerous ground, because if it can be linked to them, then It would be the height of hypocrisy in that it isn’t allowable for the R&F to go out side the grounds of JW.org but totally ok for them. I think the fact that the narrator chose to not show his face and disguise his voice, is telling in that perhaps he knew he was not following the rules. BTW If it’s any consolation (I think due to the narrators slight off American accent) he may also be a Spanish speaker, or is fluent in another language.

  33. Kat says:

    very good work cedars!
    What I also found interesting is when you addressed what the media has said about JW, and that it is mainly concerned with Scientology, this is true, then you said (not sure of exact words) have the WTBTS got the media under their thumb, as so much is not reported that could be especially on child sexual abuse cover ups.

    I thought I was the only one suspicious of this also, I have often thought about this, as in my country Australia, there is an ongoing royal commission and nothing much has been said about JW, and nothing absolutely nothing in the media was reported about the Conti case here, nor has there been any mention about other cases that have made some papers overseas, yet here there is much about priests and other cases, but nothing on the news or in the papers about JW’s.
    Find that very odd!

  34. zeebo says:

    Rowland Nelken – yes please bro! Its so difficult because she is hiding behind language. If i could get Russian pages like this and jwfacts and Russian support groups it might help.

  35. Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

    Kat, it may be that the media have decided that Scientology is sexier to pursue. They have many celebrities and their shunning is far more extreme.

    Remember, the media is not out there as a noble holder of account only, it’s got to make money.

    I very much doubt that the WTBTS has some kind of deal with the media. Remember that the WTBTS has already warned its followers to distrust the media, to prepare for when they do eventually go after them.

    It may be that the WTBTS has sums invested in media companies. Maybe someone out their in the community could see if they could find out where the collection money is invested.

    If the Church of England can get its fingers burnt having shares on Wonga (a high interest lender in the UK) then it is entirely possible that the WTBTS has some skeletons there.

    I am saddened also at the lack of media attention to domestic violence and child abuse in the WTBTS. But Jesus demonstrates what a small group of people can do when they tell others about what they have found. It will take time, but the message that there are many things seriously wrong with Jehovah’s Witnesses is out there stronger each day.

    I commend all of you out there in the community who take time to inform us and others about what you know. Thank you

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  36. Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

    Kyle Racki,
    Who can serve Jehovah, a man made god?
    “This is what Jehovah says: ‘Here I am bringing against you calamity from within your own house;+ and before your own eyes, I will take your wives and give them to another man,*+ and he will lie down with your wives in broad daylight.*+ 12 Although you acted in secret,+ I will do this in front of all Israel and in broad daylight.” (http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/nwt/E/2013/10/12)

    Who can serve such a stupid god!

  37. Dynamo says:

    There is a good possibility that the site is for him. He is probably experiencing severe doubts about the organization, and is suppressing and challenging those doubts in a manner that seems productive to him.

    Comments are disabled to prevent those doubts from being fueled, and there’s probably also a control issue at play. In the congregation, and in his life, he lacks control, given the authoritarian nature of the organization. But his youtube channel? He controls it.

    In any event, the fact that comments are disabled sends a loud and clear message to those who may stumble upon his video that his beliefs do not stand up to scrutiny.

  38. Kat says:

    he sounds scared of any negative response to his video, most JW cannot handle criticism about their organization, he may even in his mind blame apostates for those doubts. In a way I can’t help but feel a little sorry for him.

    If your reading any of these comments JW defender, be sure that most here have been where you are now and understand the conflict.

  39. Rob says:

    First, I am not jw defender.

    But I tried to respond to Cedar’s objections in email but he stopped replying. If JW’s were afraid of objections, why do they go door-to-door? We meet people of all types of religious objections. Surely we would want to protect our gullible members. But that is not the case.

    • Cedars says:

      Rob, on what date was the email sent? I will gladly check my inbox and reply accordingly.

      You make it sound as though I didn’t reply because I didn’t want to or because you won some argument. I don’t appreciate having my motives impuned in that way. It is far more likely that I was simply too busy to respond, as is the case with lots of emails I receive.

      So, date please?

      And JWs don’t go door-to-door because they are fond of objections. They go door-to-door to “make disciples.” The objections are just an undesirable byproduct to what they perceive as a necessary work. If that is the kind of logic awaiting me in your email, I should have fun with it.

  40. sjd says:

    Thank you Cedars!!!

    Amen to Mick!!!

  41. Kat says:

    Being a JW for nearly fourty years, I can say that if any objections that a JW cannot explain on doing WT research, they don’t go back. Or they will consider this one an evil aposate and avoid them. Wipe their feet of and conclued we are being persecuted because we have the truth.

    If JW defender was not shy of responses and questions to his video why then did he not take the option to not allow any replies to his video?

    Why does JWdefender no be open for replies to his video, should he not want to make a public defence for his faith?

  42. Thinking of leaving says:

    If WT is behind this (of which there is a big question mark)then they have made a serious mistake. It would be the height of hypocrisy to not allow the R&F to go out side the bounds of JW.org, when it’s totally ok for them to. I thought JW.org was all that was needed. If it can be linked to them they will be toast. One way to determine will be to see if the sight is around after a couple of weeks. Even the fact that the narrator chose to hide his identity, and disguise his voice, is telling. BTW going by the narrators slight off American accent I’m guessing that English might not be his first language e.g Spanish.

    • Acadianlion says:

      I doubt the Watchtower cares. The only reason for the Watchtower to “go after” the site is if in the judgement of their legal counsel the site is violating their copyrighted literature. This would be certainly the case if the site in any way took money from viewers, either by subscription fees or by donation. I did not see any pandering for money when I looked at the site. My guess is the Watchtower will just ignore this site as it is of the world they claim to not be a part of….that is until that world has something they want.

  43. tall says:

    Because the governing body of JW are illuminatti(impostors) of the New world order.Infiltration of Jehovahs people by the KN explains the problems we have seen occur in our true worship. True worship of Jehovah will remain and be preserved by Christ Jesus, the problems we have seen are confirmation of Daniels prophetic word, we just haven’t been given the truth about exactly how they are being fulfilled in our time because the KN infiltrators have been the ones doing the explaining. They have succeeded that far, all the way to the top. It didn’t happen the way the WT explained it in the Pay Attention to Daniels Prophecy bk.(pg. 272-273 chpt.16) That happened but that explanation was a diversion of the bigger infiltration intended to go as far as the GB/FDS. So is this the true religion? You betcha! Where else would Satan want to be? John told us exactly where. Rev.12:9 and 17.

    . 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

    17 And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus. —-If all Jehovah’s witnesses would study this information prayerfully, looking up the scriptures they would begin to understand why the FDS/GB had failed to inform them of the revealed identity of the King of the North with a more complete understanding of the complexities of the South (an understanding of their change in development foretold to be revealed in the later period of the time of the end).

    Why? Because it was foretold by Daniel in detail in chapter 11 and other references to it elsewhere in his inspired writings. He prophesied it to SUCCEED till the time of the end, exactly opposite of the way it’s explained in the book “Pay Attention to Daniel’s Prophecy!” published by the WTS/GB/”, you can read the dumb-ed down false reasoning and sweep it under the rug cover-up story in chapter 16 paragraphs 7-10 where they allude to an infiltration then pretend it is over which contradicts Jehovah’s version as explained by Daniel in the Bible which succeeds among Jehovah’s people and their spiritual estate. This concealed/covert infiltration did not end as they claim for it went all the way into the camp of the holy ones as false anointed being so effective and successful by the time that publication was written that even if our beloved eagle eye Fred Franz detected them it was already too late for those false brothers/infiltrators insured that silence by DF’ing his nephew Ray as an apostate who otherwise would have had some oversight of his care and would have alerted him.

    So now it becomes apparent that for the most part the present GB/FDS are impostors = not anointed/gone bad anointed at the earthly head of Gods worshipers in the minds of baptized JW’s.

    Satan must be so proud that he has the finest form of apostate lifted up above all anointed holy ones remaining on earth… yes, above the real, true sons of God; who are to become a temple for Jehovah to inhabit by spirit. Say it ain’t so!!!! Well, not according to Paul who warned of this very signal development in 2 Thessalonians 2:2-5. Yes anointed ones, read it but don’t weep… rather understand because it’s prophecy being fulfilled and get ready for the face off in verse 9. Use this time wisely for last minute preparations for a big work that lays ahead of us, with the recovery of many stunned JW’s who will need this explained for healing then on to the final two witness work to the world.(Rev. 11) —–

    • Rowland Nelken says:

      Oh dear, Tall. Why on earth do so many folks imagine that the guys who wrote the books of Daniel and Revelation (whoever they were) have anything to teach us about our future? Those fantastic beasts and trumpeting angels can be, and have been, shown to represent anything and everything. For Newton the locusts were the Muslim hordes. For Rudolf Steiner they were the Bolsheviks. The 7 headed Beast is the UN for the JWs and for Hal Lindsey the King of the North was Leonid Brezhnev. For the Roman Empire the 5th Monarchy was the Christianised Roman Empire and for the Fifth Monarchy Men of the 17th century English Revolution the Fifth Monarchy was the Fifth Monarchy Men. How much longer will these weird old bits of writing from the ancient Middle East attract fantasists and wackoes? When will they arrive at their only reasonable niche, that is, as items now of purely literary and historical interest? The journey of the Bible into history would be hastened if the non fundie Jews and Christians ceased parading the Bible, if only as a ceremonial prop, as the Word of the Lord.

  44. Kat says:

    OK Tall then shouldn’t the anointed in the org “get out of her my people”
    I have no doubt that the WTBTS and its GB are corrupted at the very mostspirituallyy.
    If those as you say of the anointed are part of the orgwouldn’t't Gods spirit show them what is going on and what to do.? Are you of the anointed? a trying to reach out to other anointed? if you not why is it that you see all this and they don’t as Sons of God to direct and help his people as a FDS?
    If you are then why are you hear giving this message as mostly this ones on here are not even part of the org and or aagnostictic. So what give brother?

  45. Sue says:

    Tall
    I wonder if Spielberg fancies making the movie?

  46. tall says:

    So you must be a witness of JW. If those as you say of the anointed are part of the org wouldn’t Gods spirit show them what is going on and what to do.? Are you of the anointed? That is a good question, for I did not write this comment but It came from some one call “my eyes” in a forum called topix.The reason I put this here is to see how people would react to this. I have read how the glorious ones of the governing body would disfellowship anyone who does not agree with their ever changing doctrines even the other so called anointed. It is interesting how one of the members of the governing body Stephen Lett who gave a talk at an assembly is shown using the number 666 with his hand which is an occult sign , even the Watchtower of May 1, 2012 on page five You will see Jesus using the occult number and on Our Readers Ask of the same magazine on page 22…you will see Paul using the same occult sign.
    In fact over the years the WT magazine have had subliminal messages covertly hidden in their art. The You Can Live Forever on A Paradise Earth Book is just one example of the many hidden subliminal messages contained within it’s art. Also the Watchtower magazines W’s are X’s in the middle which stands for Nimrod. The two X’s represent Double Cross and denotes witchcraft. So how can Jehovah be behind an organization that has used the occult since the beginning with Russell and his pyramidology which is how he came up with 607 to 1914 to begin with! The Watchtower STILL uses this teaching today!

  47. Chuck McCabe says:

    Hmmm…so which is it? Do you “avoid” those your organization branded as apostates to you, and blindly refuse to hear anything they have to say in strict obedience?

    Or do you go door to door to seek them out and listen to their religious objections, Rob? I’m a bit confused!

  48. tall says:

    Is this man spieberg one of the anointed too.

  49. tall says:

    Are you comfused row?

  50. tiger says:

    Way to go! Glad to hear you speak and see you and see that you get points correctly and even some of the humor in all of this.

    What I find most interesting is that the individual making this video was not authorized by the Watchtower to make it and put it on the web. The term apostate in greek is apo stasies, which when translated means out of position. Meriam websters says it is a defection of former loyalty.

    The Watchtower expressly prohibits its followers from recording and sharing public talks and from accepting information about Jehovah’s Witnesses or the Watchtower that did not originate from its Headquarters or authorized branches. So as one who chose to make such a vidoe, he has deviated and set up himself up in a position that is not his. He is actually an apostate making a video about apostates. His belief that such a defense was necessary and the subsequent need to place the video on the web without first seeking Watchtower approval or consent, shows that his distrust in their decisions. He has begun his journey to joining our ranks of being a good apostate and trying to think for himself, even if it is only a little. Oddly enough this is the beginning of his leaving.

    As added proof is his reply to your video, as the Watchtower clearly prohibits its followers from “even saying a greatting” to us. Perhaps he is afraid to leave because of family and this is a last ditch effort to convince himself he believes or maybe something even more sad.

    I realize that you do not in any way seek to make assertions about other people and I greatly appreciate your being that way. As I am not as concerned with journalistic integrity and my comments should not reflect on you, rather they should be viewed as my personal viewpoints. Although carefully formed over decades of experience and concern for my fellow man, they are still, just my view of things. I believe this man like so many deserve a chance to be free of this awful mind control “guilt and fear”.

    I would like to make a simple observation. After over a decade of being an Elder, I found out that so many Jehovah’s Witnesses hide “secret sins” as defined by the Watchtower. Often these ones are the most zealous. They feel the obligation to show “Jehovah” they love him and they do all they can to prove it. Also they are told that by being zealous Jehovah will give him his holy spirit and they can conquer anything personally. However there is one major gaping hole in their lives. Try as hard as they may through prayer and personal study and duties they are unable to stop. Begging the obvious question, am I bad? Or is the idea of God or his holy spirit not real? When you are controlled to only associate with people who must say God is real, you believe you are bad and are riddled with concealed guilt. However everyone at the hall tells you how good you are and because of your seeming zeal fueled by guilt, you are promoted in the congregation to be an overlord, complicating matters even worse. Making it even more difficult to leave. By the way he is a very good reader and has a pleasant speaking tone. Therefore the confusion builds, does God love me? Does he hate me? I will show him “God” that I love him and I will do something radical that may cost me my life even my “privileges”, but it is Jehovah that matters and I want to show him that. That is where it all begins to unravel, that is where he may begin to find answers. Because there is only you when it is over. There are no demons to come invade your home because you disobeyed. Their is no Holy Spirit to lift your weary emotions. I hope he finds his way out, maybe he can do a semi feminine radio show and make some money with his voice. Oddly enough I am not being sarcastic when I say that. I have several friends in the music and entertainment business. After all Michael Jackson didn’t try to sing like Elvis. Whatever the case, I wish him well, he is a green apostate, yes, but soon enough he will be blogging with the rest of us.

    As for your rebuttal, it shows the dishonesty of the Watchtower and their baseless claims about us apostates. You are our voice in this matter and I thank you. Maybe your response directly to this man may have the added benefit of leading him to freedom from fear and tyranny. I hope he takes just a moment to consider the facts for himself.

    On a happier note, hope all is going well with your wife and your little one!

  51. tiger says:

    y to go! Glad to hear you speak and see you and see that you get points correctly and even some of the humor in all of this.

    What I find most interesting is that the individual making this video was not authorized by the Watchtower to make it and put it on the web. The term apostate in greek is apo stasies, which when translated means out of position. Meriam websters says it is a defection of former loyalty.

    The Watchtower expressly prohibits its followers from recording and sharing public talks and from accepting information about Jehovah’s Witnesses or the Watchtower that did not originate from its Headquarters or authorized branches. So as one who chose to make such a vidoe, he has deviated and set up himself up in a position that is not his. He is actually an apostate making a video about apostates. His belief that such a defense was necessary and the subsequent need to place the video on the web without first seeking Watchtower approval or consent, shows that his distrust in their decisions. He has begun his journey to joining our ranks of being a good apostate and trying to think for himself, even if it is only a little. Oddly enough this is the beginning of his leaving.

    As added proof is his reply to your video, as the Watchtower clearly prohibits its followers from “even saying a greatting” to us. Perhaps he is afraid to leave because of family and this is a last ditch effort to convince himself he believes or maybe something even more sad.

    I realize that you do not in any way seek to make assertions about other people and I greatly appreciate your being that way. As I am not as concerned with journalistic integrity and my comments should not reflect on you, rather they should be viewed as my personal viewpoints. Although carefully formed over decades of experience and concern for my fellow man, they are still, just my view of things. I believe this man like so many deserve a chance to be free of this awful mind control “guilt and fear”.

    I would like to make a simple observation. After over a decade of being an Elder, I found out that so many Jehovah’s Witnesses hide “secret sins” as defined by the Watchtower. Often these ones are the most zealous. They feel the obligation to show “Jehovah” they love him and they do all they can to prove it. Also they are told that by being zealous Jehovah will give him his holy spirit and they can conquer anything personally. However there is one major gaping hole in their lives. Try as hard as they may through prayer and personal study and duties they are unable to stop. Begging the obvious question, am I bad? Or is the idea of God or his holy spirit not real? When you are controlled to only associate with people who must say God is real, you believe you are bad and are riddled with concealed guilt. However everyone at the hall tells you how good you are and because of your seeming zeal fueled by guilt, you are promoted in the congregation to be an overlord, complicating matters even worse. Making it even more difficult to leave. By the way he is a very good reader and has a pleasant speaking tone. Therefore the confusion builds, does God love me? Does he hate me? I will show him “God” that I love him and I will do something radical that may cost me my life even my “privileges”, but it is Jehovah that matters and I want to show him that. That is where it all begins to unravel, that is where he may begin to find answers. Because there is only you when it is over. There are no demons to come invade your home because you disobeyed. Their is no Holy Spirit to lift your weary emotions. I hope he finds his way out, maybe he can do a semi feminine radio show and make some money with his voice. Oddly enough I am not being sarcastic when I say that. I have several friends in the music and entertainment business. After all Michael Jackson didn’t try to sing like Elvis. Whatever the case, I wish him well, he is a green apostate, yes, but soon enough he will be blogging with the rest of us.

    As for your rebuttal, it shows the dishonesty of the Watchtower and their baseless claims about us apostates. You are our voice in this matter and I thank you. Maybe your response directly to this man may have the added benefit of leading him to freedom from fear and tyranny. I hope he takes just a moment to consider the facts for himself.

    On a happier note, hope all is going well with your wife and your little one!

  52. John Baptist says:

    When a Rat is cornered what does it do? It Runs!!!!
    Just typical of those who think they have the Truth but cannot defend it reasonably and properly.
    Seems this Fella probably never wished he didn’t take a run at his endeavor. It will be interesting to see what happens when his local body of Elders catch wind of this lol

  53. ElearElda says:

    JW Defence – not an elder or MS, not having any organizational experience. He told me that he will give us specific proofs. We shall see, but he won’t find it in WTS literature. He has not commented yet my point about guilty elder remaining in the position although he committed serious sin and hidden that for many years although I asked him about that privately. That’s fact, not any pointless accusation of WTS/GB. He cannot do the same with the apostates.

    And,,, He has an elder book! He’s not obedient to his governing body! It’s sheer hypocrisy! He searched beyond jw.org? He did wrong. He talks with apostates or opposers? He did extremely wrong. If his elders find out he would have TROUBLES with his holy organization. That is the truth.
    If he does not listen to them in such things like using the Internet why he should in other things? It’s syncretism (Łuk. 16:10) and definitely not any exemplary Jehovah’s Witness. It’s definitely a lack of integrity or unity in his behavior. It’s like “Swedish table” – he takes what he wants and the rest no matter.

    Even if he only reads Daily Text…

    * es13 p. 99 October 6-th***
    “What is involved in avoiding false teachers? We do not receive them into our homes or greet them. We also refuse to read their literature, watch TV programs that feature them, examine their Web sites, or add our comments to their blogs. Why do we take such a firm stand?”

    We do not wanna our disciples. And we encourage others to see both sides of the coin. According to WTS JW Defence isn’t allowed to see what opposers say. How about his conscience? Is it clear about that. When I yet believed in WTS and did something what they condemn I felt guilty and it was normal human reaction. I assume that he simply DOES NOT BELIEVE IN EVERYTHING THEY HAVE TAUGHT HIM.

    JWs are the most judging religion I know.

    (Proverbs 17:15) Anyone pronouncing the wicked one righteous and anyone pronouncing the righteous one wicked—even both of them are something detestable to Jehovah.

    I wrote him also:

    QUOTE:
    “And many people like John Cedars or Danmera just devastated your weak reasoning.

    You made a great mistake – you assume your conclusions without ANY ARGUMENTS but now you have pretensions that people judging you??? Your reasoning is very immature – you just reversed the right order of proving anything. If any building have no columns it will crack up. You build on the WTS sand my friend. Jesus is the truth not WTS [John 14:6].

    As for WTS’ research team – if you read Barnes notes or any other good Bible commentary of the “Christendom” it is 1000× better than any Watchtower article. And how JWs cite… It’s parody! Even their own publications! Like about 1975 – that they didn’t foretell an Armageddon! But they did! And it was one of many false prophecies. They are false prophets.

    With the reasoning book there lacks verses from De 18:21,22

    (Deuteronomy 18:21, 22) 21And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’

    Why? Because it unmask them as it should – as false prophets. I defended them too – believe me or not. I tried to find out arguments, I didn’t listen them about the Internet. I did it good. Now I born again and I feel peace of mind as never before. I wish you the same. But by the JWs way of view I will tell you the truth as a former elder – you do it wrong in their opinion and you will regret that. but in my opinion – you do it good that you do the research even if it’s against GB rules.

    Listen about 1975 and then tell me that they didn’t false-prophesied. You cannot prove that bc even if WT Library you will find many proofs that they did. At YT there are all movies – like Sinutko “stay alive till’75″.

    Now I’m writing an article about disfellowshiping people.”

  54. Arno says:

    Good for you/us, John, for doing what you’re doing :)

    My daughter (18) and just having completed high school, visited with her boyfriend for two weeks over the December holidays. One evening, after supper, we were just chatting when out of the blue she asked me WHY were you declared an apostate, Daddy? I told them my experience (my wife is still deeply entrenched, although we elected to live in different provinces of our country – South Africa).

    Then I had to hear (gulp) about my daughter and her BF being forced to become Witnesses officially by being baptised… I asked her if she has ever gone onto the WWW and had a peep at Ex-JW sites/blogs? She answered in the negative. Soooo, I set my laptop up and zoomed in ont JWSurvey… … … and she got totally absorbed into reading.

    After a while she joined us outside and said, “Now I understand so many things that Mommy always just shrugs off…” And we continued sharing the absurdities of a Cult long-long ago having derailed, as well as the pharisee-like behavior of the rest of our JW-family and the double lives they live all for the sake of not being shunned…

    I support, together with so many others what you are doing for the uninformed as well as the NOT SO UNIMFORMED. BTW, I came to realize the power of just LIKING every new article on FB – others DO follow it up :)

  55. Tiger says:

    Wow arno, what a difficult situation you faced. I am glad to hear that your daughter has an open mind. You clearly are a good father to aid in her in finding her own answers. So much better than the communist Witness way of do this because we told you so and you are not allowed to question, therefore think or reason for yourself. You have given her a great gift, the gift of self respect, reason and the right to question what does not make sense.

    Congratulations to you sir and best wishes. Also to Cedars, thanks again for all your efforts!

  56. Nan says:

    Having been a faithful JW for 42 years, I take umbrage to your comment about small-minded people. As in any organization, many JWs are loving, generous, kind and self-sacrificing (albeit misled). I did everything from love all those years. Yes, I have disassociated myself and feel a great loathing toward the organization itself (read this as the pope-like GB) but please try to abstain from comments similar to the WT, insulting all who do not share your views. It puts you right in the same boat as are they.

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