I am occasionally asked by visitors to JWsurvey.org what my personal religious beliefs are, particularly since my articles are often critical of the Watch Tower Society. Jehovah’s Witnesses are understandably concerned as to whether the information they read online is accurate. They are particularly wary of visiting so-called “apostate” websites due to the Society’s repeated counsel in this regard.
I thought I would write a brief article explaining my current spiritual outlook, with the aim of clarifying the approach and tone of this website for any newcomers who are curious. I am hopeful that this will go some way to reassuring visitors to JWsurvey.org that my motives in running it are genuine.
One accusation I sometimes hear levelled against this website is that it is “apostate” in nature. The terms “apostate” and “apostasy” have come to be loathed and feared by Jehovah’s Witnesses who read Watchtower literature. Witnesses generally associate those words with anyone who contradicts the Society’s official teachings. But is this an accurate view of what “apostasy” really means?
What is an “apostate”?
The word “apostate” basically has three definitions depending on your outlook. There is (1) the Bible’s definition of an apostate, (2) the Watch Tower Society’s definition, and finally there is (3) the secular (or dictionary) definition. There are subtle differences between all three definitions.
The Bible’s Definition
The Bible’s definition of apostasy is summarized for us on page 126 of the book Insight On The Scriptures (Volume 1), where the opening paragraph under the heading “Apostasy” reads as follows:
“This term in Greek (a·po·sta·si′a) comes from the verb a·phi′ste·mi, literally meaning ‘stand away from.’ The noun has the sense of ‘desertion, abandonment or rebellion.’ (Ac 21:21, ftn) In classical Greek the noun was used to refer to political defection, and the verb is evidently employed in this sense at Acts 5:37, concerning Judas the Galilean who ‘drew off’ (a·pe′ste·se, form of a·phi′ste·mi) followers. The Greek Septuagint uses the term at Genesis 14:4 with reference to such a rebellion. However, in the Christian Greek Scriptures it is used primarily with regard to religious defection; a withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship, and service of God, and hence an abandonment of what one has previously professed and a total desertion of principles or faith. The religious leaders of Jerusalem charged Paul with such an apostasy against the Mosaic Law.”
And so, at least according to the Insight book, the Bible refers to “apostasy” as a “withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship, and service of God”. Specifically, there are connotations about apostates drawing off followers after themselves, which I will address later in this article – but the basic meaning is a rejection of true faith in God.
If this was the only definition by which someone accused of apostasy would be judged, it would be relatively simple to determine whether the person was guilty or innocent. If the person’s beliefs about God contradicted what is contained in the scriptures, then he would be classed as an “apostate”.
The Society’s Definition
The Watch Tower Society has a slightly more specific idea as to what “apostasy” means. To find it (in a way that is expressed in clear terms), we must consult a letter that was sent out to all Circuit and District Overseers, dated September 1st, 1980. One paragraph in the letter reads as follows:
Notice how the Society’s definition of “apostasy” (or “apostatizing”) differs substantially from the basic biblical definition in two key areas:
- An apostate is not just someone who “promotes” apostate views (i.e. by trying to “draw off followers” after themselves) – he is someone who believes things that run contrary to the “faithful and discreet slave”.
- An apostate is not just someone who disagrees with what the Bible teaches about God – he is someone who rejects “what he has been provided through the slave class”.
Hence, the Watchtower’s view of apostasy is different, and more specific, than the Bible’s definition. To be an apostate, all you need to do is view things differently to the “faithful and discreet slave” (now identified as the Governing Body). Period. It doesn’t even matter whether you go to strenuous efforts to promote or convince others of your beliefs. You simply have to view Bible teachings differently to how they are expressed in Watchtower publications, and you are automatically considered an “apostate”, worthy of disfellowshipping.
It is for this reason that many are disfellowshipped for apostasy even if they go to strenuous efforts during their judicial committee to demonstrate that their beliefs do not contradict what is written in the Bible. In the minds of elders who stick to the Society’s guidelines, it is irrelevant whether your beliefs can be backed up by the scriptures. What matters most is that you agree with the Governing Body and everything that it teaches. If you don’t, you are an “apostate” according to the Society’s definition of that term.
The Secular Definition
The secular (or dictionary) definition of apostasy is very succinct and easy to understand. The Oxford Dictionary that I keep on my desk simply describes the word as follows:
And so, from a purely secular context, apostasy is simply an abandonment or rejection of one’s former religious beliefs. Nothing more, nothing less. In this strict context, Christianity can be considered as an “apostasy” from Judaism (which clings to the Mosaic law covenant and awaits the arrival of the Messiah). The early Bible Students (who later became Jehovah’s Witnesses) could be considered as “apostates” from Christendom – because, rightly or wrongly, they rejected many traditional beliefs of mainstream Christianity.
If you want to apply the secular definition at a minute level, you could even say that each time a new belief or understanding is published that replaces a former teaching (as with the “new light” about the faithful and discreet slave) this represents an “apostasy” from the former teachings of the organization. Conversely, if a Jehovah’s Witness refused to accept a “new understanding” as published in the organization’s literature, preferring instead to cling to the former teachings on the matter, he would be disfellowshipped for apostasy – for abandoning the new beliefs of his religion.
A matter of perspective
This is the strange irony about apostasy – it is all a matter of perspective. For example, Charles Taze Russell and Joseph Rutherford are regarded as being among the founders of our organization. However, if they were miraculously resurrected and materialized in the lobby of the World Headquarters in Brooklyn, they would not be immediately embraced into the organization with seats on the Governing Body because their beliefs would be very different from the beliefs expressed in Watchtower literature today.
Both these men would need to have bible studies to educate them about the various changes in understanding over the many decades since they both died. If, after studying all these changes, they refused to accept the version of “truth” currently published in Watchtower literature, they would be unceremoniously disfellowshipped and cast out of the very organization they helped to establish. It is a strange and perplexing irony, but this is essentially what would happen in such an albeit impossible scenario.
So, to summarize all three definitions of apostasy, these are:
- The Bible’s definition: abandoning the true faith in God.
- The Watch Tower Society’s definition: abandoning the teachings of the Faithful Slave.
- The secular definition: abandoning one’s former beliefs.
Now that we have considered all three definitions of “apostasy”, we can address the title of this thread and answer the question: Is JWsurvey.org an apostate website?
- According to the Bible’s definition, no it isn’t an apostate website. JWsurvey.org does not encourage anyone to abandon their faith in God according to the Bible. In fact, each of my articles dealing with scriptural matters attempt to use scriptural reasoning. They establish what the Bible says, and show how this differs from the teachings or practices of the Watch Tower Society. If anyone can identify anything in any of these articles that contradicts or misrepresents what is said in the Bible itself (and not just according to the Watchtower’s interpretation of the scriptures), they are welcome to email me and I will immediately correct the article accordingly.
- According to the Watch Tower Society’s definition, yes it is an apostate website – because I very much disagree with (or have abandoned) some of the key teachings and practices of the Watchtower organization. In particular, I find the cruel shunning of disfellowshipped family members unloving and unscriptural, and I find the mishandling of accusations of child abuse according to a misapplication of the “two witness” rule despicable and negligent in the extreme. I also see no objective evidence to suggest that the Watch Tower Society enjoys any special divine favor or guidance that would justify its harsh and authoritarian approach towards Witnesses who disagree with the Governing Body.
- According to the secular definition – yes it is an apostate website, because (for the reasons discussed above) I am no longer in agreement with all of the beliefs and practices of Jehovah’s Witnesses as defined in the publications of the Watch Tower Society. However, as I have explained, according to the strict dictionary definition of the term “apostasy”, the Watch Tower Society can be said to have apostatized from Christianity, and even from its own former teachings (every time it releases a “new understanding”).
I hope the above consideration of the various definitions of “apostasy” clarifies things for visitors to this website. Basically, if you are the type of person who will blindly follow the Watch Tower Society simply because they claim to be God’s sole channel of communication with mankind, then this website probably isn’t for you.
If, on the other hand, you are interested in the real truth and wish to research factual information about the beliefs and practices of Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower organization, then you have no reason to fear or be distrustful of the information presented on these web pages. My articles are written and prepared with a whole-hearted committment to revealing truth, regardless of whether this conflicts with what has been published in Watchtower literature.
Even having considered the above, you may still be curious about my personal beliefs and motivations, and how these might influence my writing. I will now try my best to elaborate on these honestly.
So, what does Cedars believe?
As far as my status with Jehovah’s Witnesses is concerned, I am still technically one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. To date, I have not been disfellowshipped, neither have I disassociated myself in writing. However, I no longer attend meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and I no longer participate in the preaching work. In that respect, I am considered by my local elders as an “inactive” one. They are obviously unaware of my work on this website and elsewhere. I have a fairly unique set of circumstances making it difficult for them to pry into my affairs or investigate my personal views.
As far as my religious beliefs are concerned, I have only recently (in the past two years) mentally escaped the iron-like grip of what I perceive to be an extremely controlling religious organization. I am therefore extremely reticent to plunge into yet another belief system (or set of religious or atheistic assumptions) that could be mistaken, or based purely on faith in things that cannot be proven or verified.
I still have a respect for the Bible, which is why I often refer to it and cite scriptures in my articles. However, I am completely open-minded as to what God’s purpose for mankind might be – or even whether there is a God who is interested in Earth’s affairs at all.
If this shocks or stumbles anyone, I can only apologize – but I feel it is important to be honest. I personally believe that the reasons for any doubts I have are well founded (being the product of careful thought and research), and a loving “God of truth” would not punish me for asking the honest questions I ask. (Psalm 31:5; 1 John 4:8)
As an example of just one of these “doubts”, you can read an article I wrote for another website discussing the first three chapters of Genesis – although this is just one part of the Bible that causes me to ponder.
Regardless of my personal questions related to the Bible, I still feel qualified to comment about the Watch Tower Society and the beliefs and practices of Jehovah’s Witnesses from a scriptural standpoint because, as a former elder and Bible School graduate, I have a relatively in-depth understanding of the scriptures and Watchtower theology. I am also still technically a Jehovah’s Witness, although admittedly I only remain one because many of my family are Witnesses, and these would shun me if I ever disassociated myself.
Irrespective of my own personal beliefs or “doubts” about certain passages of scripture, I am profoundly affected in a very negative way by the organization, which has mentally trapped multiple generations of my family. I therefore feel a certain duty to use my knowledge and experience to help others awaken from what I perceive to be a damaging and destructive belief system. This is the only way I can think of to find a productive application for my negative experiences.
Drawing off followers?
If, even after reading the above, you feel that my personal doubts about the scriptures make it inappropriate or wrong for me to comment on the Bible or Watchtower teachings, you should be reassured of one thing: I can never rightly be accused of trying to “draw off followers” after myself, because I do not have a set of beliefs to promote, and I am strongly opposed to anyone who tries to impose their own unproven beliefs on those who leave the Watchtower organization.
For example, there are many videos on YouTube that have been produced by those who oppose the teachings of the Watch Tower Society, and you will often find that some of these videos have been made by those who seek to replace Watchtower doctrines with their own interpretation of the Bible.
I can understand why, if you genuinely feel you have a correct understanding of the Bible, you might want to convince others of this (especially if you feel that salvation by Christ is at stake). However, by specifically targeting Jehovah’s Witnesses and trying to pull them out of a damaging cult and into your own alternative belief system, you are merely living up to the Watchtower’s definition and stereotype of an apostate – namely, by “drawing off followers” after yourself.
Ultimately, it is impossible for any of us to be assertive about any particular interpretation of the Bible – especially in such a way as to imply that only WE have the one true faith, and only WE enjoy God’s direction and blessing.
The one Church claiming to have a direct unbroken line throughout history with Christ’s apostles (through “apostolic succession”) is the Catholic Church. Not only is the history of Roman Catholicism riddled with scandal – their beliefs are based on unscriptural teachings and traditions. Those who choose to become Catholics in spite of this (as many millions do) must make this personal choice in the knowledge that it is a matter of faith. Any Christian organization or church claiming to have replaced or supplanted the Catholic Church as enjoying God’s divine favor is ALSO asking its followers to accept their claims based on faith rather than hard facts.
I am not saying that we shouldn’t be Christians or observers of the Bible command to preach and share one’s beliefs with others. After all, preaching is a key element of any Christian’s faith. However, I believe modern Christians should humbly be mindful of the fact that nearly two thousand years have passed since Christ’s death, and nineteen centuries have passed since the last of his apostles died without any obvious and indisputable acts of God to provide irrefutable evidence of his purpose, or his backing of any individual or group of worshippers.
It is therefore inappropriate for any Christian to dogmatically insist that HE has the only true faith based on the Bible, and that to enjoy salvation everyone must follow HIS interpretation of the Bible, and no one else’s.
It would obviously be different if God were to dramatically intervene in Earth’s affairs and make his purposes irrefutably clear to the masses – but until this happens we are all in the same state of relative uncertainty as to God’s purpose, and we shouldn’t insist on beliefs that are based purely on personal interpretation, or faith in things that cannot be proven or verified.
For this reason, you will never find any attempt made on this website to “draw off followers” or persuade visitors to enter some alternative belief system, whether it is religious or atheistic. Those who try to do this using the comments beneath each article will find their comment removed, especially any links that are posted to websites of a blatantly religious nature.
I view it as my role, or the role of this website, to report on verifiable facts and nothing else. If I have any higher role or ambition, this is merely to lead people out of what I perceive as an extremely damaging cult, just as a Himalayan Sherpa would lead a mountaineer down from a perilous mountain slope to safety. What the mountaineer does once he has reached safety is his own decision. He and his Sherpa will part ways – hopefully as friends. This is all I am interested in doing – leading you to the facts, and (if possible) helping you to gain mental freedom from a controlling organization. What you do next is your decision, and no one else’s.
If you are a Christian, and you struggle with feelings of uncertainty regarding what to do next after leaving the organization, you may find one of my past articles helpful. I wrote it not long after experiencing my own “awakening”. It is called “Lord, whom shall we go away to?“
A translation of the above article into Hungarian is available by clicking here.
Well written my friend,i couldnt have said it better.
I look forward to reading more of your articles.
I really appreciate your writing this. I agree with you and JIMBO. May more and more Watch Tower Society members seeking help benefit from this site.
What Cedars has written above is very much the view of hundreds of thousands of ex JWs. Certainly the vast majority have no interest whatsoever, to ‘draw away followers after themselves’
Their only interest when speaking to JWs is to show them from the bible, and from the societies own statements, the very many wrong conclusions and double standards the Watchtower society has. If after listening to an ex witness, the JW still wishes to remain in the organisation, that is their choice. But at least by that time they will have heard both sides of the arguement.
When a person is a witness, they are strongly discouraged from listening to anyone elses point of view about many different things. They are told they will only get the real truth about anything through the FADS, or as they are now known, the governing body.
To any thinking person, it will always be a wise thing to do, to hear different points of view, rather than to just refuse to talk about a particular subject.
Only when one is properly informed, can a person make a decision as to what they should believe, and ultimately how they should spend the rest of their lives.
Thanks for another excellent article. I was shocked to know that you are still a JW and that you are not a Christian. By the way, if you can find any audio on the 2012 Memorial and audio on that one day special assembly explaining their new understanding of the FDS please let me know. Thanks!
Thanks JMN451. “Not a Christian” isn’t entirely accurate. I suppose I’m still a Christian in that I don’t deny Christ – I’m just not a practicing believer.
As to the recordings, I would imagine that recording devices at the Annual Meeting were strictly forbidden. I certainly haven’t heard of any whole recordings being available. However, if you go on JW.org (“news” section) you will find a video covering the event with brief clips of Governing Body members explaining certain features of the new understanding. I hope this is helpful for your research.
Forgot to explain that I want those audios just for research purposes. Thanks!
Cedars,
Great article, thank you! As a former elder and ex-JW (’61-85′), not DF’d or DA’d, I can relate to what you are saying, your comments resonating clearly in my mind. It is regrettable that JW’s cannot differentiate between the Scriptural definition of apostacy vs. the WT’s definition. In their minds, one and the other are the same thing, the result of being brain-washed into believing that ONLY they have “the truth” and ONLY they belong to the ONLY (God) spirit-directed organization on earth. With the WT’s constant barrage of self-promotion, self-appointments and religious elitism, it should come to no surprise that this type of judgmentalism will continue to occur.
Thanks again, Kitledge
Thanks for the kind comments everyone. I do appreciate it! I don’t expect all of the ex-JWs who visit this website will be thrilled that I won’t tolerate any proselytizing on these pages, but hopefully I have made my reasons abundantly clear in this article.
I would be very grateful if you could all help me to keep JWsurvey.org free from blatant attempts at proselytizing by visitors. I have just trawled through all 341 comments on the “Governing Body / Faithful Slave” thread and removed any links to websites of a blatantly religious nature. If you could all assist me by emailing me if a similar spamming comment slips through the net, I would be very appreciative.
Visitors who are persistent in trying to use these pages to push their own religious beliefs on vulnerable cult victims will be removed. By all means, start your own website if you feel that way inclined. Don’t try to hijack this one.
Let’s work together to make this website a safe and useful resource for people to gain freedom from an erroneous belief system – not one that points them in the direction of another.
I agree cedars. I am trying to work my way out of the org and don’t intend to make the same mistake by joining another religion or org.
Imagine yourself on a sinking ship,with the captain and his crew doing everything in there power to keep passengers from leaving.as difficult as it might seem the sooner you get off that ship the better off you’ll be.
O Google tradutor desta vez ajudou e compreendi muito bem esta sua bostagem (ops: postagem). Parabéns irmão Cedars.
Apóstolo TDS
“Around Cedars, one sometimes needs to stop, press rewind and take it all in once more, slowly” – Kathleen Conti
Goodnight Cedars:
It is comforting to know that “world” there are sincere people like you who can have a vision sincere about the “real truth”! – I liked the parallel where probably mention that Russel and Rutherford would be considered apostates because they do not agree with the current understanding of the Watchtower!
I served for nearly a decade in Bethel. My eyes were opened only when I personally realized that the organization’s interests were more important than his sheep sincere!
Just like you and so many brothers who post on your site, here in Brazil we have a crowd that is also working to provide a vision “safe” about the real truth!
Big hug!
Brazilnews
Thank you for your article, Ceders! It was very well-rounded and I’m happy that you leave everyone the liberty to decide for themselves, whether they stay associated or not. You have said things that are true and can’t be denied. The institutions in general have disappointingly failed, including the GB. What is still to be pursued is the personal relationship with God and his Son who died for us. I was sorry to hear of your somewhat distant remarks toward Christianity. Christ himself promised he would return, however, and this will set matters straight – Come Lord Jesus! I expect a merciful Jesus, however, one who will understand our plight and make a true judgement, just as he did when he was on Earth.
Very well written and intuitive article! I agree with the fact that others shouldn’t come on here (or any other site that has to do with exposing the hypocrisy of the Watchtower Society) and push their beliefs on others. It’s so hard to come out of the Organization or as in your case, Cedars still be in it and have other people’s beliefs forced on you! It makes them just as guilty of apostasy as JW’s!
As for my beliefs, it is hard to say. I’m going through a transitional phase right now so anything can happen!
I of course respect other’s beliefs, like Catholics, Evangelical, Jews, etc, etc… because at the end of the day I don’t believe that GOD will judge us by what religion we belong to but more so by our heart, the deeds we have done, how we’ve treated others, morals/principals, etc….
I don’t believe he will judge us on whether we believe in 1914 or getting a blood transfusion, shunning, so on and so forth.
If GOD is a GOD of love like JW’s claim he is then why would he make us choose when it comes to blood transfusions? Or whether or not we associate with someone who merely only disagrees with an Organization’s doctrines?!
To me, it just doesn’t make any sense!
But I will keep on searching and studying as long as I can. I don’t know if I will find the truth or not. Only time will tell.
Knowledge is required to arrive at any decision. To be fully informed can prevent problems. For example:-
Organizations form their own belief systems, anyone who then differs with a scriptural viewpoint, becomes an apostate of the organization.
Are they an apostate to God’s word. I believe not. God’s word over-rides all organizations. From my study of Christian religion not one organization has all the answers.
They may white wash their ideas, and change their mind about teachings. In the end the organization is not the important thing.
God’s word is.
Hi everyone I am considered an apostate in every sense of word according to the above definitions. 1 John 4:8 is rather clear about love and if you know it then you also know your God. I believe things are simple when it comes to the truth. Is it loving to condemn a child when they ask a question that is different from your view? Of course not. Many followers are like children in many faiths because they do ask questions and often need guidance when confused. Is this a reason to condemn them or outcast them for it? This is a clear violation of the definition of love when you consider love in its many forms. I love everyone but with different forms of love depending on the situations. The real issue is not Cedar and this websites views but the Governing Body has shown over the years to be lost in this so called, “Light”. Light to bright blinds the viewer and too little you cannot see anything clearly. A healthy honest view gives just the right amount of light for all to see without confusion or strain. The real truth contains just that right amount of light and that is why I am considered personally an apostate. If i offend anyone then great because you are either blinded by the light or cannot see it because their is not enough for you to see my point anyway.
Well, most JWs are ‘apostates ‘ anyway for having abandoned their former religions to become followers of WBTS…..
I’m only recently awakened and I feel angry and trapped..I now believe that all religion is a ‘snare and a racket’..and that God looks at individuals not organisation.
Keep up the good work Cedars.
what cares the oak when the hog rubs its fur on it? The real apostates are those who demand from their believers to believe without any question and to accept when the doctrine goes down the river. the Watchtower so often changed direction. Their “new light” demands a new battery as to much is questionable. Theri 1440 k coing to heaven taking from the symbols is an only fake as since Rutherford about 100 k witnesses haven taken from them. And the hundred thousnands of christiaans in earlierer times – are they outlined for heaven? it is all ridiculous
Excellent article Cedars, this is your most balanced so far.
Totally agree with everyone here: critical and independent thinking in a fair, balanced and objective way is always best, which is why organisations like the WTS are so afraid of critical analysis techniques and freedom of expression. As you say, “truth” is a matter of perspective, and it’s only when we start examining as many perspectives as we can that we find what is true and what isn’t, not just with the Bible, but everything else too.
I came into contact with the JW’s due to an insatiable curiousity I have for learning about new ideas, other belief systems etc. If anyone is interested, I’d recommend reading the letters that the Apostolic Fathers wrote to each other back in the 1st and 2nd centuries to see what they REALLY believed, such as epistles by Ignatious of Antioch, Clement of Rome, Polycarp and the letter to the “interested” pagan Diognetus, which explains what 1st-century Christianity was all about in great detail. Truly eye-opening stuff that blows most (if not all) of the WTS claims out of the water regarding the Cross, Hell/lake of fire and who/what Jesus was claiming to be. Not one of the Apostolic Fathers mentions “Armageddon” or “The Faithful and Discreet Slave” or “Paradise Earth”. So curiously, according to the WTS belief system, Jesus and the Apostolic Fathers were apostates themselves in need of a bit of FDS “correction”… interesting. When/if Jesus ever returns, he will probably be shunned by the JW’s too!
However, it’s important to remember that most JW’s (including their Governing Body to an extent) behave the way they do simply because they don’t know any different, which is why sharing information is the best thing we can all do. You make a great point Cedars, about not forcing views on others by allowing people to come to their own conclusions, otherwise we’d be no better than not just the WTS, but many others who claim to solely have “The Truth” – whatever that is anyway.
Despite your problems Cedars, you clearly enjoy doing the research – like me and everyone here – so I’d say just keep researching, take your time and you’ll keep finding shocking things yes, but also amazing facts that the average JW will sadly never be aware of. The way I see it is that life is so rich and diverse, even if we don’t always agree with each other, why not embrace all peoples and ideas and beliefs? The more we know and understand the more we can help others. If there is a God, then he is above all this confusion and suffering that people inflict on others – it’s all about breaking down the assumptions and boundaries people/groups have placed on others for literally millenia.
Kind Regards,
DB
PS Cedars, if applicable could you please provide references at the bottom of your articles so we can easily find where you get your info – particularly about Rutherford, Russell etc – from? Thanks!
Cedars, thank you for such a great website and for such thoughtful and well researched articles that you write. I’m also an ex JW not DF’d or DA’d so that i can also stay in contact with my family. I grew up in this religion from a baby up until i was 18 and never looked back. Because of your site I was able to have a discussion with my mother regarding the GA and their new thoughts regarding the FDS. I wasn’t shocked that she had no idea about all of this yet as the organization hadn’t even told the rest of the flock until Sept what was happening regarding the FDS. Unfortunetly she is so brainwashed by the ideas of this religion that she won’t see anything other than what she has been taught. I hope someday she will be able to see what i see, same with my little brothers but until then I will keep trying to help them all see the controlling aspect of this religion and the brainwashing that goes on. I’m now 32 yrs old and even now i catch myself starting to pray to god and think “Dear Jehovah” instead of just Dear God etc. The things that we’ve been brainwashed to say that take years to get out of the habit of doing!
Hi Paula, I have the same problem with my 34 year old son. The moment I start to talk about the org, even if it is something reasonably positive, the shutters come down. I would love to tell him about the ‘new light’ on the FADS and the abuse court case the Watchtower has so far lost. There are so many things that I know now that I had no idea whatsoever about as a witness. I agree with you about how hard it is to get deproggrammed as it were. All we can do is hope that little by little they see that all is not well in the org, and that life is actually so much better in the real world.
Thanks for the article Cedar! I was an unbaptized publisher at one point. I currently define myself as an agnostic atheist, and I suppose I always was, even when I decided to start preaching. At the time I had a very limited understanding of the organization, and I made some pretty broad assumptions about their benefit to society. I reasoned that even if there is no god, Jehovah’s Witnesses still do good, and it would be worth the effort to at least go out and invite others to attend the meetings. Seemed like a fair trade for all the “free” home bible studies I was receiving.
Needless to say my impression is completely different now. I fear that my experience with JWs has made me less tolerant of religion in general, and I have to remind myself of all the charities and food drives and clinics that are run by religious organizations, and even the efficiency of JWs in responding to natural disasters.
What troubles me most is their reluctance to critically assess their views, which is quite the paradox as they apply this same assessment to other religious beliefs.
Anyway, thanks for the article. You have incredible writing skills.
I left the watchtower organisation two years ago as well.
And although, I still strongly believe in God.
I know that the watchtower is not the truth!
However, unlike you, I never had other members of my family
to be concerned with in the truth.
But I owed it to the True God and my own self respect to
leave and disassociate. Whatever, the reprisals.
As the bible says,”You cannot have two masters”!
So if the watchtower is not telling the truth then it is serving itself.
Therefore, to remain attached to it in any way, can seem to be serving two masters, in affect.
So I rather be serving the True God!
One doesn’t need to read the Watchtower or even attend the meetings to get the real sense of the Society’s feelings and views. In fact it won’t happen as that’s an image and facade for the “Stepford sheep” to keep them in ignorance. Just hook up with one of the on-line covert operatives and engage them for a while or have any close contact with a representative at Bethel and the true sentiments will become readily apparent. Everyone should read this entire thread from topix with someone who engaged and exposed a Society operative to get a sense of what the real Society is about:
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/T2BLKL6CFL16LMFQQ
Another excellent article. Thank you for your research and the time you spend to make this information available to us.
Well written Cedars! I too, left the org 9 mounts ago (dissasociated) and the only thing I want is to be “free”. This organization destroyed my family and it was a start point to see things cleared. I undertook to understand how the God of the ible punishes so called “SINNERS” and started questionning a lot of Bible and WTS teaching like 2 Samuel 12:12 which implies that the God of the Bible was the “planner” of David’s wifes’ rape. I do not believe in how the WTS interprets Genesis 6:2 which reads “then the sons* of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose.”
My wife hates me for this and hope YOU won’t.
Excellent article, Cedars! Thank you for taking the time to outline the differences between “true” apostates and “labeled” apostates. I personally know dozens of current and former Jehovah’s Witnesses that don’t take issue with any of the basic beliefs of the Watchtower (no hell, no immortal soul, the commandments of Jesus and his apostles), but can’t reconcile those rather positive beliefs and the desire to good with the contradictions and dirty laundry within the organization. I personally know many former Bethelites and Gilead graduates who were prepared to dedicate their lives to doing God’s work – until they were exposed to the leadership of the Watchtower up close. I also know several who were booted out within their own Kingdom Halls simply for asking for clarification on certain policies or doctrines.
I fully support your position to not try to explain the unexplainable or try to convert others to your personal religious beliefs (or lack thereof). It’s pretty clear that the Watchtower does not qualify as a religious organization that Jesus would choose to represent him on earth. Too many man made rules that make no sense and policies that not only divide families, but also put children in harm’s way. The Governing Body better hope that Jesus DOES NOT RETURN in their lifetimes to judge them because the outcome would likely not be very pretty. They’d all “have some ‘splaining to do’!
Yes, let each of us decide what our future paths should be. I was recently contacted by a former JW who told me that he and his wife decided to become Catholics. When I asked why Catholicism?, he told me that he really didn’t believe in their doctrines or that their wine turns into Jesus’ blood when the priest prayed over it, but they liked the imagery, the good feeling they got when attending church, and the many charitable opportunities that were available to them. Who can fault their reasoning? He chose that church because it gave him structure and purpose. That would not be for me – but I support his decision.
Good job, Cedars. Keep pushing everyone to keep an open mind while not letting the Watchtower / GB get away with anything shady.
I agree with most of what you say John, but one thing I would take issue with, is where the former witnesses decided to become Catholics, for the reason that they liked the imagery, the good feeling they got attending the church and the many charitable opportunities that were available to them.
Surely anyone who claims to belong to the true religion, should do so because what it is teaching is the truth, not just because it gives you ‘a nice feeling’
I wanted to mention that since I posted the above link:
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/T2BLKL6CFL16LMFQQ, The person returned to topix after a long hiatus and is trying to legitimize himself and a public image and quite successfully actually. Masters of the manipulation of image and people, the the emotional slight of hand they are! He just fell right back in and no one pays any regard to the fact that he is at Bethel and a Watchtower operative at all!
I have been inactive since 2001, it took a while to get over somethings from the org. No where in the bible does it state there is only one true religion but one true God. It also that God’s Word is like medicine, and it has truly helped me in trying times. Leaving family and friends behind still hurts after all these years. To this day, I still have a hard time getting close to people. I find that once someone leaves the org they don’t pick up there bible again. Most JW’s are trying to do the “right thing”. We might get hurt from it but it’s not there intention. Shouldn’t we encourage one another and preach Jesus message once we are no longer confused? Isn’t that our job? But thank you for this site, it does not deceive but just gives us true information without judgement.
Thanks afriend for that research. You learn something new every day! When I get a moment to look into it I will be fixing the article to reflect the information you have kindly highlighted.
Thank you cedars for your honesty about still being a JW…it must be hard to still feel attached to that belief and have questions about what our real purpose is….epecially because your time in the organization….When i spoke to my wife about the “new light” she basically said that it wasnt new light but she said that the GB has always been the F&DS but they have always referred to the “anointed ones” I found that hard to believe since that isnt stated in older publications…i guess some JW’s believe what she is saying to be true…and they see this “new light” to be really no new at all….I struggle with my stance in my family because im the only one that is not a JW in the house….i have a daughter with my wife who at the present time because she is young i let her go with my wife to the KH but have recently let her know that when the time comes i will pull her out…of course she didnt like that….JW’s are not bad people…but the things that are misinterpreted are what make the organization look bad…i have asked her several times how can you put your faith in a group of men that are not even in the same congregation that you go to….of course she tells me that they have the Holy Spirit so thats why…I ask her why dont you have the Holy Spirit…and she tells me that she does…..unfortunately its a round and round cycle with us…she feels i debate with her…i tell her i am trying to understand why she believes what she believes…I will leave you with this: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.” Ephesians 1:3-6
I’m actually the happiest and most peaceful that I have ever been in my whole adult life since I came in contact at age 21. At 1 month from 50 years old, I finally have control, total control of my own life and affairs and all who enter it! I answer only to my creator for the things I say and do…and really say and do, not any charge at will or every little petty issue every other day to harass and torment! I’m relearning how to treat people and how normal people treat each other and how many things were just so wrong!
I’d like to share some of my recent research of WatchTower members’ attitude towards what the WatchTower has drilled into its members’ minds regarding treating so-called “Apostates”.
Without even knowing me, some WatchTower members, within their circles, have used these terms regarding their disdain for me: he’s more like Korah. The ground should swallow that bama up. There’s a hail stone with his name on it. That dude should swim with the sharks. I have favorited these remarks on my twitter account.
This murderous attitude, in my opinion, is the direct product of mind conditioning tactics of the WTS. This attitude, as well as the passive attitude, may very well be manipulated at any time by the WTS. The WTS, in my opinion, is a puppet of a superior authority of this world and apostate from the spirit of Biblical teachings. The WTS’ skill at manipulation is useful to control over 7 million members, to either have them kill or stay out of someone’s way.
The general population of the world usually only see the passive side of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I’m starting to believe this murderous attitude has been inculcated into the minds and hearts of WatchTower members over the decades for some unthinkable reason. I hope I’m wrong.
William, I think we need to remember that the rank and file witnesses are simply victims exactly as we were. Most of them are nice people, but they have had their mind controlled, just like we had by the society. They have it in their head that the gov body are God’s channel, and therefor whatever they say must be correct. Our job as ex witnesses is to show them that there is no way that is possible considering their awful record. We managed to get out, let’s hope many others will follow our example.
Hi Cedar,
In my last post I did mention Jesus and how I believe in him, but I hope you don’t see that as me trying to convert anyone. I say these things because I’m excited about the scales falling from my eyes regarding the GB.
Of course, I’ve had doubts a while now, and many of them come from my own observations of the world and people in it. But now, according to that 1980 definition of apostate, I definitely deserve to be disfellowshipped! My husband knows most of my new views, but I know he won’t rat me out, and even if an elder in my cong knew, they’re pretty laid back guys and wouldn’t do anything. They have a live and let live attitude unless someone’s really doing something terrible, like the elder who was cheating on his wife for five years and pinching from the contribution box!!
I believe that there are so many ways to look at what Jesus taught, that really the true identifying mark along all these different interpretations is that we ‘do the will of [his] father”, and have “love among yourselves’, that is, everyone and anyone who professes Jesus; and to “love your neighbour by doing like Jesus and doing good works to them”.
And if any of you reading my post have a different belief, that’s cool!
Please, if Apostles Paul and Peter were resurrected in the lobby of Watchtower HQ, they’d need a six-month bible study. If Jesus puts in his “second coming” at “HQ,” they’d ask him to take a bible study and why he was reading a Hebrew/Aramaic scroll instead of the NWT!
I’m an ex Jw, and I have my own site where a talk about the false teachings of this dangerous sect. (Also Youtube videos cristiano72392
JBob February 23, 2013 at 1:49 pm
“Please, if Apostles Paul and Peter were resurrected in the lobby of Watchtower HQ, they’d need a six-month bible study. If Jesus puts in his “second coming” at “HQ,” they’d ask him to take a bible study and why he was reading a Hebrew/Aramaic scroll instead of the NWT!” ~ I actually believe that and don’t see any humor whatsoever!
Dear Cedars; Snap very similar position except on belief I still deeply believe in Scripture. I feel sure all Scripture will be understood before the End, I will publish whatever helps toward this.
Genesis 12&3
Gen 1 v 1 to 2 v 3…the creation straightfoward pure and simple.
Gen 2 v 4…Introducing the history of another heaven and earth [“the World”] created within the first heaven and earth of Genesis 1 v 1 to 2 v 3.
-The seemingly simple story cleverly lays down the Sin issues with the formation of the Pagan/Rebel system -it takes a bit to get your head round it though, Hislop readers should be half prepared.
You can solve how three equals one in a godhead from Genesis 3.
A diagram:
http://yahweh-immanuel.info/fig%202%20review%20diagram.html
B
Your creed of tolerance an open-mindedness are very compelling. I propose that we hail Cedars as our new leader, the figure-head, the mouth piece and true channel of God’s communication to man. Clearly the holy spirit is directing Cedars (and only Cedars) to reveal these truths. In fact as true Cedarites i propose we all print this article and go and distribute it. Then donate our money to Cedars for ‘runnung costs’ of this world wide work. Truly we know that a prophet is among us.
Consider yourselves drawn away from the darkness of watchtoweryness to the light of Cedarism.