149 Responses to Holy drain covers: No expense spared on new Warwick headquarters

  1. Bruce Kubin says:

    Do you recall the specific article/directive relating to your comment ” … rules were introduced to the effect that Kingdom Halls were no longer permitted to display the Watchtower symbol.”

    • Cedars says:

      I’m afraid not. It would have been in 2008/2009. Probably one of our lurking elder friends can help us out. The gist of it was that the Watchtower symbol was permissible only on Watchtower branch offices, not Kingdom Halls. If I recall correctly, there was also something about if the logo is not removable (i.e. in the brickwork) this was no huge deal.

    • wifibandit says:

      *** km 4/09 p. 4 Question Box ***

      Question Box

      ▪ Is it appropriate for congregations or individuals to use the logos of legal corporations used by Jehovah’s Witnesses?

      A logo is a name, symbol, or trademark designed for easy and definite recognition. The Watch Tower logo is representative of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania and other corporations used by the organization. The Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses uses an open Bible in its letterhead. Other corporations used by Jehovah’s Witnesses have different logos.

      Congregations or individuals should not use logos or names of the organization’s legal entities, or variations thereof, on their Kingdom Halls, signs, letterhead, personal objects, and so forth. Such use of the organization’s logos may cause confusion for public officials, publishers, and others about the legal affiliation of the congregation with the organization’s legal entities. Similarly, written correspondence could be misinterpreted as being approved or sent from the world headquarters or the branch office.

      The Watch Tower logo, or a variation of it, should not be used in future Kingdom Hall projects even if the Kingdom Hall is owned by a Watch Tower entity. Congregations with existing Kingdom Halls that bear a logo are not required to make immediate changes to signs or designs, since such changes may involve major alterations and much time, effort, and expense. However, consideration should be given to making a change if it would be minor and would not require extensive work. Otherwise it can be made when the building or sign is scheduled for renovation.

      • concerned_jw says:

        Yep, thats the article i remember.
        It does not mention idolatry as a reason why the logos should not be used though.

        Rather it is using confusion as an excuse.

        Interestingly enough I have seen a few KH over the years that have had the watchtower logo etched on the windows or incorporated into the brickwork, or even as leadlight stained glass windows. Very few halls remain today, but many older ones particuarly from the 70’s or 80’s had a watchtower logo somewhere.

  2. Caroline says:

    This kind of reminds me of the air-conditioned dog house that Tammy Faye and Jim Baker had before they were found out and lost everything because of their lavish spending on themselves, but at least they had a dog.

    I can’t imagine that those people living at Warwick can have a dog or a cat or a bird or a hamster or kids.

    I think as nice as this place is, it’s still going to be boring for them and I was always suckered into donating to the “world wide work” because of all those poor people in Africa who had to sit on benches outside in the heat and rain and how those funds were needed to help build Kingdom Halls for those poor brothers and sisters but instead it was going to lavish living digs for the Governing Body.

    Even if I hadn’t completely “woken” up 2-1/2 years ago, I am pretty sure, the whole Warwick thing as seen on jw.org and jwbroadcasting would have disgusted me because I was led into believing the Society was so poor and I never forgot Jesus parable about the man building more storehouses when he didn’t need them and what about counting the cost and Jesus said to be content with “necessary” things.

    I remember many years ago when I was first in the “truth”, it bothered me a lot with all the buildings that the Society was buying in Brooklyn.

    Even then it rubbed me the wrong way but I didn’t dare say anything about it because in the Kingdom Ministries, it was made to show how Jehovah was blessing the Organization etc. when they kept buying up more and more huge buildings and buying up more and more printing presses, but after the Service meetings, the only comments you were allowed to say was how Jehovah was blessing the Organization with all the new modern printing presses etc. and all the new buildings.

    Now I realize the comments about the new buildings and printing presses was coming from trained robots that wanted to sound “spiritual”.

    Now the greed and idolatry is so blatant and in your face but the Witnesses are only allowed to say something good about it.

    They are not allowed to express any other comments else except how Jehovah is “blessing the Organization” and so because they are not allowed to express anything except good things about the new Warwick digs, there could be lots and lots of Witnesses who actually don’t go along with it all but they will never know.

    If Witnesses were only allowed to express openly their real feelings about the Society’s lavish spending on unnecessary things without getting the evil eye and being made to look like they don’t support the “preaching work”, it would be such a great thing.

    I wonder just how many Witnesses aren’t thrilled over Warwick like how I would have felt even when I was fully indoctrinated.

    I think if I was still indoctrinated and was seeing the new Warwick compound, I would stop donating. That would have been my way of expressing my feelings about it all.

    • FadingJosie says:

      And here in Africa there are still congs sitting on benches under trees etc etc.
      If you are fortunate enough to be sharing your hall with three other congs then you are on the list for a new “quick build” hall…at some stage. This depends on how urgent your need for a hall is deemed to be…but glad to see that the drain covers have been “personalised” at Warwick, because Jehovah clearly needs to show his blessings on the org in this manner! What a joke!
      Sadly, most will go along with it and be awe inspired…they won’t even think twice about the irony and hypocrisy of it all!

  3. Athlyn says:

    I was thinking the other day that this organization has psychopathy written all over it: the insistence on blind obedience, the coercing of people to die refusing blood, the spiritual policing of members and punishment for infractions, the lack of empathy, the ruthless treatment of longtime faithful servants and other members, the excuse-mongering and self-praise, and the parasitic lifestyle. Warwick is a good example of that last one. We see how they ousted longtime and elderly members with nary a qualm, so they could live in luxury.

    • Eyes opened says:

      Can’t argue with that.

      • outandabout says:

        Witnesses could argue that the Vatican is no better, which is true, but hang on a minute…all other religions are led by Satan. You would EXPECT other religions to build empires and abuse the followers and the WT are more than happy to point that out. The WT say they are not part of Christendom and are the only ones following the example of Jesus…..except when it suits them and then they’ll misuse the bible again by digging up a piece of obscure scripture and apply it to themselves and all the followers will gush and say “we are sooooo lucky”.

        Just like it’s suits them to say “oh, child abuse is in all religions now”, but again…. hang on a minute…..they’re happy to align themselves with all the false religions when it’s suits them for that one too. Suddenly they’re ok with linking arms with the Devil to sway the Witnesses thinking and the Witnesses are happy to go along with that to settle their discomfort. They grab it with both hands! “Let’s forget that we are supposed to have the cleanest, most honest, loving, and charitable organisation run by god himself until that one blows over. That way, we don’t have to think about it and discover we’re being made fools of every single day of our lives”.

  4. Eyes opened says:

    The logo on a sewer drain. How appropriate.

  5. Joey says:

    We can totally tell by the quality of those facilities that satan’s system of things is trying it’s utmost to destroy Jehovah’s organization. /sarcasm

  6. whyamistillhere? says:

    An elder recently tried to get me to start going back to meetings. (I stopped going 15 months ago.) I told him there were many reasons I didn’t want to go any more, one of them being the money (begging) side of things. He just told me to remember all the good that the money is used for! Yeh right, like custom made drain covers! Shocking waste of money!
    It’s great articles like this that keep reminding me that I’ve done the right thing in leaving, even though my husband is a staunch elder. Thank you Lloyd.

  7. Chiafade says:

    Seeing how much they are willing to spend on this property is disgusting. Their most faithful employees were simply dismissed with no severance package or even a check with enough funds to take care of basic expenses for a couple of months. Something they could have easily done.

    If they averaged out living expenses to about $1500 per month for 50 dismissed bethelites that would total $3000 for two months. Or $150000 out the 1 billion that they made of off selling their properties. Plus whatever else they had in the bank before that. That would be a drop in the bucket for them. The fact that they don’t do that is very telling as far as their concern goes. They’re concerned when it makes them look good.

    The information blackout they have as far as their investigations in the UK and Australia is also indicative of their narcissistic and sociopathic nature. Zero reporting has taken place on jw dot org. As a matter of fact they’ve gone out of their way to remove those regions from their legal matters page. Under the legal developments by region page every other continent is mentioned but the UK and Australia. We all know that there are significant legal developments in those countries. Why not report it so that their members may pray for them? Because they don’t believe that will help that’s why. No apologies, no admission of guilt, no conscience.

    • Eyes opened says:

      I am not usually one to defend the org. Just a side point, someone I know well was recently was released from special pioneer service due to financial reasons according to the society. However they were given two months continued allowance to help them as they sought work. At least that was a little kindness. Credit where credit is due.

      Regards

      • Cedars says:

        Two months extended allowance is a “little kindness” indeed considering how tiny the stipend is for special pioneers, and within that two months they have to completely recalibrate their financial/living arrangements.

        • Eyes opened says:

          You are right to be sure. But I was grateful they weren’t completely left without. I am an avid reader and enjoy your site immensely, keep up the good work.

          • Cedars says:

            Thanks, we do our best! 🙂

          • Carlos says:

            I believe giving them 2 month make people believe watchtower is not that bad. It’s necessary for them. But 2 months it’s a joke for those who left everything long before to live the recommended “spiritual life” and now have little chances to find a job and a flat. Often they ll have to sleep gracefully in someone’s house for years…. it’sad!

        • Wideawake says:

          Hope you don’t mind Lloyd..but…It’s great to have you back!… Can’t wait to read the book..

      • Stephane Laliberte says:

        How you see two months largely depends on how long the person has been working for the watchtower. If the person is 30 years old and healthy, he, she should have no problem striving without them.

        If on the other hand, they are 60+ and have always worked for the WT… than, that is completely heartless.

        • Eyes opened says:

          Yes that’s true also. They are young, healthy and have skills that helped them get employment.

        • Ready 4 to Fade says:

          I think you overestimate how employable someone with a strict cult mentality truly is. Communication and collaboration with other “Amherets” (spelling?), or untouchables is a daily sore spot for many witnesses. It is all too obvious to many employers and fellow employees that Witnesses have a superiority complex and are often incapable of interacting with others beyond proselytizing.

      • Chiafade says:

        There are RARE occasions when they will extend some kindness. However don’t believe for a second that it doesn’t benefit the organization somehow. Their charity is very carefully calculated. If you can even call it charity.

        For one they don’t do that for ALL of their members. So I can’t in good conscience give them credit for an isolated incident. There is something that they want from that ex special pioneer. Whether it’s their continued loyalty or the influence they hold on the rank and file members. The organization needs someone like that to provide anecdotal evidence of their continued support of full-time servants after they’ve been booted. The reality is far from that.

        Here is an example of what they’ll do for their favorite servants. One of my MTS instructors had a sick wife who needed heart surgery. Sad but not something that is uncommon. Had he been average Joe bethelite his options would be limited to whatever nearby hospital was available. If he didn’t get dismissed in the process. I’ve seen that happen too. It was shocking! Anyway, instead of the closest heart hospital the organization moved him and his wife to a location closer to the best heart hospital in the country, the Cleveland clinic in Ohio. By moving him I mean they also purchased a home for him and his wife. That’s right PURCHASED a home. They didn’t live in a kingdom Hall apartment. They could’ve lived in the assembly hall which was 40 min closer to the hospital. Nope, they bought them a house. Why? Because this particular instructor was and still is the registrar for all theocratic schools. Any major meeting changes and new schools etc start with him and couple of other men.

        It’s not about “loving kindness” with the organization. It’s “how will this benefit us”. Were it about kindness they would take care of all of their dutiful servants the same.

  8. Ruthlee says:

    Oh come on!!!! let them spend every last dollar on their empire. After all this IS the closest they are getting to paradise, the kingdom or any other reward. They could have furline loo paper for all I care. They sure like to rub poverty in the rank and file face . This is their reward in full it is earthly, ostentatious and fleeced from the flock, just like those lovely cathedrals from many centuries ago. It is a celebration of scamming and hoodwinking the foolish. When we see it all go to hell in a handcart at least we will have something to look upon as to where our hard earned cash went. I am feeling particularly sarcastic today. Hope they have self cleaning urinals,oops sorry that’s what the dolly eyecandy is for. They are no use expounding the word of god. Hope they have a golf course too, because the silly old men are useless at expounding the word of god too.. My comments are for ironic purposes only.But it looks like to me they had jam yesterday and jam today and will have jam ad nauseum. Ruthlee

    • John Peters says:

      In Ireland our LDC overseers refused a meal made by brothers and sisters but all went out for an Indian and handed the receipt to the congregation for expenses. This is a regular occurrence. All the overseers are friends and bring their cronies on board each time there is an opening. Elders who are never at the meetings but out getting praise.
      They also have weekends away with their wives and families all paid for by the contributions.
      The corruption is widespread and you are not allowed to question it.

      • Fnord Prefect says:

        Should have politely told said overseer where to stuff his receipt. But I doubt that would ever happen, certainly not in my old congregation.

      • Winston Smith says:

        Reminds me of a time back when I was an elder and assigned to make “shepherding calls” with the Circuit Overseer. A long time JW, advanced in age, had recently been moved to a nursing home just outside our territory. The body thought the brother would be encouraged by a visit from the CO. The CO was upset that the nursing home was outside our territory because it was already late in the afternoon and he had plans to be taken out for a nice dinner. As such, we spent less than 10 minutes with the older brother before the CO had me take him back to the KH so he could keep his dinner appointment. I don’t think he even bothered to say a prayer for the poor old brother. Quite the Christian example.

        WS

        • Big B says:

          @ Winston Smith;

          My mother died in her home back in November 2014, inside her congregations territory and did anyone visit her while she wasted away from advanced Alzheimers? Not one of her spiritual shepherds, elders or CO’s period. Not once in four years, how do I know this? Because my brother quit his job to take care of her in her home. Sixty years in the truth and for what?

          My uncle, in a nursing home same thing. How do I know his elders made no attempt to see him? I had great relations with the staff and asked every month that I came to see him.

          And these people call themselves Christian ‘shepherds watching over God’s flock’? Shameful!

  9. Pam Hansen says:

    My goodness…..doesn’t that tower remind you of the many prisons that have these sort of lookout towers watching for possible escapees?
    This reminds me of several scenes in the good ole movie “The Great Escape” with Charles Bronson and Steve McQueen.
    Quite a dark and dismal place that Warwick.

    • The Great Escaper says:

      ‘Tis a great movie, my friend. But maybe the reason why they are so similar is because many JWs are waking up and making their own “Great Escape.” It’d be awesome to see a movie about that someday and bring to light everything in this organization.

      • Pam Hansen says:

        Yes …..indeed it would.
        I was wondering too if the holy drain is unconsciously symbolic for just how close Watchtower might be in going down the drain itself

  10. Sonja Talkington says:

    All time low! What guts! Preach one thing and do an other! Not surprised at all!

  11. von bismark says:

    I hAve. Stopped giving donatjons..nevver will again.

  12. Tara says:

    Lol oh this is funny. I just googled drain covers in Vatican City….. talk about keeping up with the Jones’.

  13. Doc Obvious says:

    Does anyone know if the Watchtower logo is on their toilet paper in Warwick?

    Is this really keeping your eye simple? The publishers should expect more from Watchtower’s leadership than this. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society should be the prime examples of keeping their eye simple. Clearly they are not.

    How do you expect the publishers to keep their eye simple when Watchtower is doing the exact opposite?

    If your a publisher, please stop donating money to these men. They are not worth it. Do you need any more proof than this article? Also, the Warwick headquarters is located on 1 Kings drive. Wonderful article Lloyd.

  14. Kurt Hennig says:

    [Off-topic comment removed per our posting guidelines. If you have a story to share, you can always start your own web page.]

  15. Vincent Deporter says:

    How appropriate; a drain for the verbal sewage of this organization… Drain should be bigger though.

  16. ScotWm says:

    When completed, the extravagant Warwick Temple will have a cedar-pillared House of the Forest of Lebanon, an opulent audience hall and an enormous treasury room. The Governing Body members will have an elaborate Judgement Hall, with seven magnificent, heated ivory thrones.

    • Telescopium says:

      And all entrants at the main door will be greeted by an angelic chorus and heavenly sparkling lights.

      “Here’s your halo, sir. And please, don’t touch anything.”

  17. Sharon Christensen says:

    I have yet to read this article…just looked at the pics…So sad and disgusting that some poor child in a far away country had to feel that they had to sell the family goat and give the money…so these these disgusting and corrupt leaders of Jw.org….could live as Rev. 18:7 says…in “shameless” luxury! Heard that Donald T. bought their properties in Brooklynn…? All who need to “fling poo”…fling it now…before they rechrome their urinals! ;). and no $ til another “goat” is sold! The outside of the “grave” looks good…yeah, but tis the” inside “that matters…

  18. Andrew Haas says:

    I was down at the local beach last Wednesday, sitting on a bench, soaking up the sun, when I looked to my left and saw a Watchtower magazine cart and an older man packing it up. As I was leaving, he happened to be walking in the same direction. I struck up a conversation with him and we talked about Warwick and the lakeside apartments for the Governing Body members. He though it was all quite appropriate for these members of the F&DS to be living in luxury. He proudly boasted that he contributed to that. He told me that before he became a Witness in the 1980’s, he was a multi millionaire who employed 90 staff. Now he didn’t even own a car. I found his blind faith to be heartbreaking. To have devoted some 30 years and millions to the Organisation is quite a sacrifice. I got really upset and thought that I had to confront him with a few issues. All I can say is that he used the same language, same excuses, same rhetoric that I heard for years while I was there. To have invested so much into the Organisation – it was a bridge too far for him to admit to its shortcomings.

    • outandabout says:

      We have a family Witness friend who is nearing ninety, living in a home, has all her marbles and is depressed. After decades of being told she was never going to die, she can now see that she is.

      She now has to convince herself that sometime after dying, her atom’s are going to all come together and miraculously reassemble themselves into a perfect body. It’s not working.

      When it comes down to it, believing in Alice in Wonderland, Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings is too much of a stretch.

      Lions eating grass with their newly reformed bovine lips for plucking grass, teeth designed to chew grass and a digestive system re-designed to digest grass and maybe a longer body to accommodate that. They won’t BE lions! Snakes lying there digesting a rectangular bale of hay they’ve scored.

      On top of that, nobody will have any use for sexual organs anymore.

      And then there’s having to share the world with over 100 billion resurrected and confused people looking for food and shelter in a world with a population density suddenly five times greater than China has today.

      Depressing!

      Help is at hand. The information age has arrived and our knowledge is growing exponentially. We’re stepping out of the cave and into the sunlight after centuries of living on an earth which is probably no bigger than a beach ball in relation to the size of the universe as we currently know it to be.

      And on that beach ball are billions of microscopic beings who are busy fighting and squabbling and killing themselves over which is the correct path to an imaginary god.

      Utter lunacy and undeserving of any respect.

      The only way to avoid the Apocalypse is to stop believing in it otherwise it may become a self fulfilling prophesy because….we’re nuts!

  19. armegeddonman says:

    Great to see your post again cedars! Anyway if Armageddon is sooo close, why spend a half billion dollars on their lavish corporate country club when it could be built for free in the new system?! Plus taking the hundreds of brothers away from the all important life saving work for the last 3 years. There are plenty of vacant business buildings they could have rented out. And that money could be used for orphans and widows

  20. Scummydross says:

    What if Jehovah was going to use the faulty dam to dispatch the worldlies downstream in the near future and they have thwarted his plans whilst making Jehovah sad in the process?

  21. David Brand says:

    And my father said for many years there was no point in buying a house since Armageddon was just around the corner! What happened to not storing up “treasures on earth” (Matthew 6:19)??!! Thank you Cedars for exposing this!

  22. Whip It says:

    Just had a look on Google Earth, plenty of pictures attached, one word, “Why”, i know that the printing is slowing down & the TV, Video stuff is ramping up, i stopped giving money years ago, as an Elder in the past i was in the financial meetings at the assembly hall & saw how much money they had in the Bank, yet every assembly they would ask for more to cover expenses, i can’t wait for the governments to go after the loot, the blind ones are saying the real reason to get out of New York was due to the impending Armagettin it, no the real reason was the massive profits made & how cheap they can build the new place.

  23. ScotWm says:

    “When announcing the plans at the 2011 Annual Meeting, the late Guy Pierce made the frank admission that the Governing Body were “not yet certain of Jehovah’s will regarding Warwick,” but irrespective of this were “proceeding to develop the site with the intention of relocating the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses there.” This excerpt comes from an excellent article about the Warwick extravaganza which appeared last year on JWsurvey: http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/watchtower-in-crisis-frustration-grows-at-bethel-as-governing-body-focuses-everything-on-warwick

  24. Hakizimana Jado says:

    Interestingly, you will find in one of the Watchtower publication (Ref: g76 11/22 p. 28) this question:
    Does Christianity Have a Visible Symbol?
    In the same Awake!, you’ll read:
    “Jews adopted use of the fish symbol from pagan religious customs […] account in part for the appearance of the fish in the art of the oldest Christian catacombs. How early the Greek word for ‘fish’ (ichthýs) came to be interpreted as a cipher for ‘Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior’ . . . we do not know; but once this identification was made, the fish became a standard Christian symbol.”

    […] Christians today, therefore, must be on guard not to adopt such a symbol. For example, watchtower-like designs appear on some buildings and Kingdom Halls of Jehovah’s Witnesses. There is nothing wrong with these in themselves. Possibly they may help persons to identify property owned by Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, at no time should anyone look upon such things with reverence, as if they were a visible sign of Christianity. Jesus taught that, rather than through visible symbols, “by this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”—John 13: 35.

    My Conclusion:
    Humans may think they are the most intelligent creatures in the world but they are really the most manipulated creatures regardless their race.

  25. Ruthlee says:

    you know when people have a “Eureka” moment? They don’t actually have to be in the bath at the time but it means an awakening or a light bulb moment when something dawns upon the person. I have a suggestion. When people awake from Jehovah’s witness indoctrination, they could be encouraged to adopt an expression like Eureka! How about “HOLY DRAIN COVERS!” It is simple, funny, loaded with irony and just about sums up my feelings after 52 years on planet zonk. No more snooze button for me. Keep warm and well fed sheeple the draw bridge will be up soon and it’s laters to the simple folk. Cheers Ruthlee

    • outandabout says:

      I wish you’d start taking this a bit more seriously, Ruthlee!
      Come on!….out the back room for a chat.

      • Ruthlee says:

        I’m sure you realise they sent us all a bit crazy. I’m getting betterer each day. Laughter and mockery. I will decline your offer to chat because if it is in the library I may steal the books before they are sacrificed at the cong bbq. And it may be me with the lead pipe posing as miss scarlet. (A joke).Cheers Ruthlee

  26. Bret says:

    Amazing how many people are waking up from the indoctrination….
    So sad that so many wasted a lifetime…

  27. Twmack says:

    @outandabout. Agreed with your comments about the
    claptrap that people are willing to believe in, in order
    to avoid facing their own mortality.

    To the gb, that claptrap is gold bullion, it’s made them
    rich beyond belief and has financed their new multi million
    dollar lair. No expense spared, even down to the bespoke
    monogrammed drain covers.

    On a personal note, my daughter has recently had her right
    leg amputated and very soon it looks as if she will have to
    lose the other leg. Being made whole again in a new world
    is what keeps her from despair. I do not have the heart to
    disillusion her. She wonders whether her limbs will be
    restored instantly or grow back gradually.

    I put that question to my brother in law elder, he made no
    reply. No Bible example to draw on, no account of a
    limbless person coming to Jesus and having their limbs
    instantly restored. I wonder why !

    ( No offence to Bible believers. Comments are my own
    conclusions.)

    • outandabout says:

      Sorry to hear about your daughter, Twmack. I hope she’s in a congregation of really nice people who will give her support. Despite the negative aspects of some witnesses, just like here there are congregations of really nice folk who don’t understand all the criticism coming their way because they just can’t relate to it and so have no choice but to put it all down to proof that Satan is indeed trying to undermine the one true religion.

      Of course there’s no proper thought going into that conclusion. Surely, everybody in every church believes they are in the one true religion.

      Is it possible that somebody goes along to another church, stands there and looks around and say’s to themselves “yeah..I know the Witnesses have the one true religion, but, y’know, I’m really impressed with these stained glass windows and that young filly over there, I reckon she’s giving me the eye so yep, I’ll stay right here”.

      As a general rule, probably not.

    • dee2 says:

      Twmack,

      I am truly sorry to hear about your daughter.

      It would be rather painful for your daughter in her situation to arrive at the place where she acknowledges that beliefs have been conveniently manufactured and employed by our minds to comfort ourselves.

      The JW promised Paradise earth provides comfort to her but the unpleasant truth is, the world was created just the way we see it – when the Garden of Eden story is read without JW filters, it clearly shows that Adam & Eve were never created with a perfect body, they were created mortal since they would need to eat from the “tree of life” in order to keep living but God, however, banned them from eating from this tree after their so-called “sin”.

      It would be too much for JWs to acknowledge this so I suppose it’s best to let them be since their promised Paradise earth brings them comfort in times of distress/tragedy.

      Warmest regards.

    • Tara says:

      Oh Twmack I am so very sorry to hear your news. My thoughts are with you at this time x

  28. Sharon Christensen says:

    Finally got to read this juicy tidbit of info…thanx to all for…Nice to see these ..”Humble”bros who make up the gb are following the advice… to be “content with sustenance and covering”…Wish my Dad was still alive to see this! Mother would argue with him many times comming back from a meeting…Father saying these guys say one thing and do the opposite! Mother condemning him for speaking against God’s chosen! Dad long gone…but she is still admiring these jokers…her herself living with bare….sustenace and covering …but still giving her icecream money to these jokers and fakers! And yeah, they do not feel the least bit of guilt…grab it real quick! So sad as to the fellow mentioned earlier…had riches and no nothing but “veggie”cart! :(. Being a cleaner myself due to pursueing spiritual things earlier in life…Man would I call it a priviledge to…Fluff my duster in this place…and oh how proud Jehovah would be of me …wholeheartedly scrub the urinals til they gleam! Making sure the Tower emblem shone with approval Lett and all the other stopped by to relieve their…awesomeness! Whoops,.oh dribbles, well that is Ok…I am humble…my pleasure!

    • Holy Connoli says:

      @ Sharon Christensen. Years ago a person I studied with asked me why all the JW’s were Janitors or window cleaners? I said at the time so they could set their own hours to “preach”? He said Well I will just call them Janitors for Jesus! The good news is he never became a JW and I am no longer one for 20 years.

  29. Hakizimana Jado says:

    @Twmack,
    “No offence to Bible believers”! I have realized “Bible believers” can’t be offended. The Bible is full of “offenses” that they have become immunized against offenses.

    Consider these two:
    1) (Numbers 31:17, 18) . . .Now you should kill every male among the children and kill every woman who has had sexual relations with a man. 18 But you may keep alive all the young girls who have not had sexual relations with a man. . .

    2) (1 Samuel 15:3) . . .Now go, and strike down the A·malʹek·ites, and devote them to destruction along with all that they have. You must not spare them; you are to put them to death, man as well as woman, child as well as infant, bull as well as sheep, camel as well as donkey.’”

    Bible believers are strange!

    • outandabout says:

      I understand where you’re coming from, HJ, but when it comes down to it there are so many worse ways to be than a believer and I’ve always found them to be decent people. I have to keep reminding myself of that. Who would you rather have move in next door – a christian or a gang member?

      My beef comes from the bible being a license to manipulate and control. It’s a gift for the unscrupulous and comes with the bonus of government backing and enshrinement in law. Wow! Ka-ching!! $$$$$$$ Is there anything better?

      The bible taps into our fatalistic mindset. How did we get here? What did we do to deserve it? Wow this is fantastic!…..it’s so good it MUST end. How many times have we heard a comment about things going so well that something just has to come along and ruin it? We expect disaster and the bible takes care of that nicely.

      I myself have that type of thinking and also, I don’t for a second believe in Astrology but whenever I’m reading and come across my horoscope I will read it and if it fits I may wear it a bit.

      And seeing as you asked, let me tell you about the time I was physically ‘touched’. I grew up on a diet of war comics and instilled into myself an unknown fear of Germans. When I went to shake hands with my very first German on German soil, somebody grabbed my arm and pulled it back, twice in quick succession. I understood what was going on and it was an education and so I will fully believe a devout christian who has been ‘touched’.

      It’s all in the mind.

  30. Twmack says:

    @ outandabout
    @ dee2
    @ Hakizimana Jado. Thanks for your kind responses. T

    • Eyes opened says:

      Dear twmack,
      Truly sorry your daughter must face such circumstances. Kudos to you for letting her keep her hope. The Bible speaks of exquisite delight, no more sickness, the lame leaping. We have a choice of what we believe. If these Bible verses bring her hope and allow her some joy, who of us would want to deprive our loved one of that. And to the extent possible helping her be and do what she can even now. Wishing you and yours all the best.

      Regards

  31. Karl says:

    Sometimes I feel like articles like this from exJWs are cheapened by continually going back to the child abuse issues. Yes, the child sexual abuse that goes on in (and is effectively sanctioned by) this cult are egregious and should not be minimized but does it really have to come up in every critical article about the cult? There are so many things that this cult does that should and ought to be challenged in their own right that I feel that in some ways they get watered down due to the constant referencing of child abuse. Harping on one topic like this can make it seem that those of us who’ve left the cult only have one arrow in our quiver and can leave those that have doubts thinking that we’re all just picking on one thing and have been tricked by satan. In reality, essentially everything about the cult is evidence that it is false, internally inconsistent and intrinsically harmful to its followers.

    In my early days of doubting, I read a little “apostate” information online but all of what I found early on focused on child abuse and that was easily dismissed for me as apostate lies or overly litigious people trying to get a payday, etc. While I see sexual abuse as abhorrent, I was sufficiently removed from its effects that I wasn’t bothered by the (in my mind) isolated allegations that the watchtower had in some way caused or promoted this abuse. I think its important to have a simple message and stick to things in small bite-size bits. In this case, its enough to show the lavish and excessive nature of the construction for the leadership and contrast it with their claimed humility and their criticism of other religious leaders that use their evangelism to enrich themselves to show the inconsistency. Saying “they should be spending this money on child abuse victims” waters down the message that would be more effectively conveyed by showing their hypocrisy in spending money on themselves while simultaneously criticizing this act in others.

    • Cedars says:

      To make this comment, you need to either be indifferent to the seriousness of child sexual molestation or oblivious to the scale of it among Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Governing Body are making themselves very comfortable with money that should be set aside for the multitude of victims of one of the worst possible things that can happen to a human being. I won’t apologise for pointing this out. If you feel the internet needs more ex-JW websites that turn a blind eye to the shocking scale of the problem, you are welcome to set up your own.

    • John Redwood says:

      Karl

      In no way will we stop publishing or mentioning the horrific cases of abuse and cover up which are being exposed on a weekly basis. We appreciate the fact that you are out of the organization and free to be an activist, or to not be one, but your opinion fails to take into account the thousands of people who click on our site through Google searches every day. Not all of these people are aware of the sex abuse scandals or cover-ups, so we will continue to mention them frequently to raise awareness. Our articles change on a regular basis, which means new visitors to the site will see the latest articles first, and we fell very justified in bringing this important topic to the attention of everyone. I promise you that there are still those who do not know about this problem. So if you are tired of hearing about it – well try to think of how tired all the victims are of being denied justice. This is not about JW Survey- it’s about the victims of Watchtower policy. We need to think about these people and not complain when JW Survey frequently brings these issues to the public on a routine basis. When we finally bring about permanent change, then we will move on to another subject

      JR

      • outandabout says:

        Karl, keeping the child abuse to the forefront is essential.

        Firstly because the victims deserve recognition and secondly, it exposes the WT for what and who they truly are.

        If they could defend themselves they would be rushing into print to calm the flock, but they have nothing. No doubt they would love to print a few weasel words but they know those words will be in print forever and will be immediately pounced upon by pesky apostates. They tried ‘apostate lies and dishonesty’s’ and that one is biting them in the bum. All they have is silence.

        Nothing screams ‘false religion’ more than this abuse because there’s hardly a more abhorrent crime. They’ve been got by the balls and it can’t be ‘scriptured’ away this time. An organisation that hides child rape for fifty years, silences the victims and shelters the perpetrators, points fingers at the Catholics, etc for their crimes while at the same time claiming it is the one true religion and all others are in apostasy, gets caught and thumbs their noses at the world,…well…what else needs to be said?

        They need this shoved into their smug faces every single day.

        There are no haters on this site…only lovers…..’Lovers of Justice’

  32. Hardy says:

    The logo jw.org stands for http://www.jw.org. It’s advertisement for their website not idol worship.

    • Eyes opened says:

      Do you where a logo I.e. “NYT” to advertise the New York Times?? Probably not. This logo “JW.Org” is on buildings, signs, purses, book bags, suit coats, sweaters and the list goes on. This seems an inordinate amount of advertising. Where were the pins that would say “Read the Bible Daily” ? I don’t recall those.

      Regards

    • Winston Smith says:

      By the same logic then, wearing a cross around your neck should be nothing more than an advertisement for Christianity. JWs classify it as idolatry. Classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

      WS

      • Eyes opened says:

        Yes my husband said that too. He also recalled that as a child you couldn’t even have a team sports pennant. That didn’t even have a religious connotation to it. How much more idolatrous when an organization being led by admittedly uninspired and fallible men would have themselves advertised ahead of their own leader. This religious org is not about spirit and truth, rather money, power and control, in my experience.

        Regards

    • George says:

      It is clear that jw.org replaced the Tetragrammaton. On the carts the name Jehovah’s Witnesses is not mentioned, only jw.org.

  33. Twmack says:

    @ Tara
    @ Eyes opened. Your concern warmed my heart.

  34. Doc Obvious says:

    What’s in store for 2017? Here is a glimpse.

    Less spiritual food. More children’s videos during the mid-week meeting. Discourage higher education. Encourage home schooling. Anthony Morris III is in. Lloyd Barry is out. Encourage window washing employment. Discourage independent or critical thinking. Encourage Mind Control. More Forrest Gump; Less Albert Einstein.

    These are all things that the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses want individual publishers to reach out for.

    Therefore, Watchtower Babble and Tract Society’s new motto for 2017 is “Let’s make publishers stupid again”.

  35. Concerned_jw says:

    In all fairness, I believe the lake level “valve” was part of an agreement with the government when building the headquarters, they actually had to make significant repairs to the dam after watching the video, those drain covers look like they are made from laser cut steel and were likely cheaper to make than buying some precast ones from a foundry, but yes is the logo really necessary? I actually want to know the scriptual origins for this logo because i cant find any. I dont even think watchtower is mentioned in the bible, only watchmen???

    • concerned_jw says:

      And to add about the “heated” driveway, am i correct in thinking this is designed to melt away snow in winter?

      • Cedars says:

        I take on board your comments about the heated driveway and the dam (although arguably having snow on the driveway is less of a problem when you have an army of volunteers who will consider it their God-assigned duty to shovel snow for you). You may have a point about such features at Warwick being necessary. Even so, I personally regard the entire Warwick project as one big extravagance, especially given Watchtower’s teaching that the end is imminent. If replacement offices are needed following the move from Brooklyn, either Patterson or Wallkill could easily be modified or expanded to accommodate. Even Tuxedo, the site purchased to service the Warwick build, would have made a perfectly suitable headquarters. But the Governing Body of the 21st Century wants only the best, and I believe Warwick, taken as a whole, is clear evidence of that.

        • concerned_jw says:

          Dont get me wrong, I do feel there has been alot of money spent here. In fact, ive never heard of heated driveways before, hence why im asking, im not even suggesting it be necessary, but i guess if it could be done cheaply, then its not really an issue, perhaps they are able to utilize excess heat from their boiler that otherwise would be wasted.
          I know there is a certain amount of negativity towards the new HQ going round circles, a little filters back to me, but most people stay silent.
          To me im more concerned about the weak minded comments posted on that instagram feed of the drain cover…

          • Cedars says:

            Yes, I too am disturbed by the Instagram comments. They reveal a group of worshippers bereft of the ability to think for themselves, who have been trained to herald the most trivial developments as evidence of God’s backing.

          • Tara says:

            I’m in Canada and heated driveways are common. Not sure about over in the States but if someone slips on your drive before or after you have cleared it of snow and or ice then you can expect to pay hefty insurance to the injured. Most Canadians take this as just being part of winter but our American cousins like the insurance payouts. Not dissing them for this but I get the better safe than sorry attitude in regards to clearing snow /ice properly.

    • Bad Penny says:

      I believe the scriptural precedent for using ‘The Watchtower’ can be found at Gen 31:48-49. However, there is also a sinister connection with the goddess Artemis whose statue bears watchtowers on her head. (We often miss this headdress because we tend to focus on her multiple breasts). The Watchtower also appears on a Tarot card. Perhaps not the wisest choice to make when deciding on a ‘holy symbol’ for your organisation, but then, as we now know, jw.org is far from holy!

      • concerned_jw says:

        OK, thats interesting info!
        Now interestingly enough only the NWT (not sure of other translations) render the word as “watchtower”
        The king james and american standard translations both render mizpah instead, which was actually a place name which can be translated into watchtower, but there was no literal tower there from what i can find, will have to do more research on this, but read here http://www.mizpah.biz/what-does-word-mizpah-mean
        It appears a pile of stones was placed there to mark the place, but no physical tower.
        One example how a hebrew word can be translated and used out of context.

        Anyway, im not one for conspicary theories, but i have seen in other sites and some youtube videos that claim the watchtower was used as part of freemasonary, this may have had some ties with CT Russell perhaps? IDK

        • Winston Smith says:

          I have researched the subject of Russell’s connection with the Freemasons and there is simply not enough evidence available either to confirm or deny the connection. One thing that is obvious is that Russell seemed to have a fascination with occult symbols and adopted many of them in his literature. That could explain the extensive use of Watchtowers. Rutherford attempted to purge many of the occult symbols (whether for good or bad motives can be argued) but they were so entrenched in the organization, they could not all be removed without substantially loosing the organization’s identity.

          WS

          • concerned_jw says:

            I too agree WS, there apparently is no evidence that he was even a freemason member, yet i dont know why he was burried in a freemason cemetery under a pyramid?

            He certainly had obsessions with pyramids and used freemason symobls on the watchtower magazines, so there must be some ties somewhere i guess?

            IDK, if freemasons are such a secretive society, then perhaps his identity as a member was also kept secret?

          • Freed Mason says:

            Hmmmm – I wonder, a worldwide organisation established at the turn of the century and initially funded by ??, run from New York, with the ability to gather detailed socio-economic and grass root information from the local population in most countries with members having no political involvement or allegiance to their country………

  36. Andrew Haas says:

    Based on the recent restated claim that the Governing Body is not inspired and have made errors in theology that required adjustment, my prediction for 2017 is some major shift in current beliefs. Of course the light is getting brighter and they can see more clearly now. They are working with five candle power at present. Oh when will the Holy Spirit stop playing his game and turn the light on for them? When I reflect on how devoted I was to their theology when I was there, it’s a miracle that I escaped. I count my blessings daily and consider it a privilege to be in the company of such a large cloud of fellow apostates.

    • dee2 says:

      Andrew H.,

      >>>>”Oh when will the Holy Spirit stop playing his game and turn the light on for them?”

      I’ve been wondering the same thing. You would think that in over 100 years of WT history they would have got “the truth” right by now.

      It is puzzling that Jesus promised that he would send the Holy Spirit to guide persons into all the truth (John 14:16 – 17, 26, John 15:26, John 16:7,13 – 15), yet it seems that the Holy Spirit can’t make up its mind as to what is truth when it comes to the WT.

      One wonders what the WT is progressing towards or away from with the ongoing new light.

      Isn’t Jesus and the Holy Spirit capable of communicating “the truth” to the WT?

    • Bill Thinker says:

      The 1935 problem: JWs have a big problem with the 1935 year and the great crowd appearing. With every passing day it is more and more obvious that the people baptized in 1935 are dying out or have by now even completely disappeared. This proves there is no great crowd appearing from that year. This fact completely disrupts the whole JW theology of the earthly hope / heavenly hope / and the imminent great tribulation. The GB has to handle this 1935 doctrine issue and the related dogmas.

      • Holy Connoli says:

        @Bill thinker. In reality the 1935 “problem” won’t be a problem for the GB just as now the 1914 problem is no longer an issue bc they just put a new twist to it and come up with another New interpretation. For 1914 it is now an overlapping generation. For 1935 Great crowd let’s see how they spin that? I mean it is 82 years from 1935 and if the age of a great crowd member was 15-25 years old then they would be 97-107 years old n. Isn’t it obvious they are wrong in their teachings. The GB will spin it somehow or change it like they did all the types and anti types or how they did the F&D slave or the “Blood Fractions”. Whatever they can come up with to cover their tracts and rewrite their own history.

  37. Bad Penny says:

    The etching on the drain covers seems to indicate a degree of permanence – we will always be here! However, it brought to mind a certain King Nebuchadnezzar who had his name etched on the bricks of his palace in Babylon ….. Pride comes before a crash!

  38. piet says:

    Shocking, what a waste of money.
    Better give it to the poor.

    By the way I’m still stuck in this cult, because my wife is complete blinded by this GB…

    Any idea to wake here up??

    • George says:

      I try to do the weekly Bible reading with my wife. Then I pose my questions about what we read. So the problems come up “naturally”. Unfortunately the best Bilbebooks for questions (with all the violence etc.) are not in the readingschedule at the moment. However I find other suitable opportunities and I see that my wife is posing questions herself now. So I hope to slowly wake her up.

    • Wideawake says:

      @piet…You can’t…I’m in the same position…you can only drop hints and do as Steve Kassan recommended and look at documentaries about other religions and niggle about them instead…it will be mirrored in the jw… ie Scientology: Going Clear…and hope she start to have thoughts of their own about how similar aspects of these cults are to JWS…also the coverage of the ARC is eye opening…IF she will watch it…and use the things that are in their own literature the latest point about the GB not being infallible in the Feb 2017 Watchtower is interesting…don’t attack just almost a passing comment to maybe make her think… I have not been to meetings for around 2 years and am inactive for the same time and no matter what I do my spouse and married children still are blinded by the gb…however I think I’m doing what’s best for them by carrying on my waking up…I don’t say much about the organisation etc…I’m careful not to give my family reason to be instructed to shun me…keep fading…that is the best thing you can do for her…shocks to her micromanaged life may be on the way and she will need you…exhausting though isn’t it?

    • Chiafade says:

      I became severely disturbed and depressed at what I discovered about the organization. Particularly during the Australian royal commission investigation. My wife took notice and I spilled my guts. I decided that I would not be a prisoner. Not in a cult and certainly not in my own home. Fortunately my wife has always had her doubts. She just needed someone who could confirm them.

      At the time we were both pioneering. I was an elder for 12 years. An mts graduate who served in multiple assignments and gave assembly and convention parts two to three times a year. My wife and I were considered “exemplary”. No one we knew imagined that we would ever leave. Don’t give up hope. Yet at the same time be prepared for the worst. I was ready to lose everything. Wife and family and friends. There was no way I was going to remain a part of this abomination of an organization with its fake friends and conditional love. You’re in a tough spot. I wish you the best.

    • Mandy Greenaway says:

      I, unfortunately, was the wife once. I’m definitely more emotion based so it seemed so wrong and bad to think negatively about what I had been told to never question. My husband simply said “I read a really interesting article about __________. It’s on the computer. Check it out when you have a chance.” He had to do this for some time. I can promise you it worked but it took awhile. I had to learn that it was ok to read it so I could try to tell him why it was wrong but, of course, it wasn’t wrong. It was eye opening to realize that I had been questioning some of the same things myself but though I was being so unfaithful for doing so. Seeing it written down that I wasn’t the only one to feel like that was so freeing. It all boils down to patience and subtlety. We fought a bit too and that did not work. LoL. We gals can be stubborn.

  39. George says:

    Piet, your name sounds dutch, by the way 😉

  40. Telescopium says:

    Oh no! The Instagram comments!

    I used to be like that…
    -facepalm-

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