Thinking Witnesses have been left scratching their heads at the strange manner in which the revised New World Translation bible was released at the Annual Meeting yesterday.
Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson was chosen to announce the release to a combined audience of nearly 250,000, and used the occasion to make jokes about sisters (female witnesses), stereotyping them as complaining too much.
Even more questionably, Jackson related how the mild summer had fortuitously enabled more new bibles to be printed in readiness for the release, and suggested that “Jehovah’s hand” was responsible for this. Those Witnesses around the world who have lost loved ones in natural disasters will be interested to know why Jehovah intervened to manipulate the weather to aid Watchtower’s bible printing project while refusing to step in to prevent the loss of human life through storms and earthquakes.
Jackson’s fellow Governing Body member Guy Pierce has also left a number who listened to the Annual Meeting puzzled. Pierce raised expectations at the start of the meeting by indicating that there would “absolutely” be “new light,” or “new bible truths” revealed. In the end there was nothing of the sort.
And in his own item on the program, Gerrit Lösch drilled home the Governing Body’s “us versus them” message by insisting that non-believing relatives are not fit for association. He also urged Witness parents to “steer” their young children towards baptism, even though this could result in the same children being shunned by their parents if they stray from the organization in later years.
A distasteful book launch
Twice during his talk announcing the new bible release Geoffrey Jackson opted to make jokes at the expense of his female audience. His first joke came when mentioning that the Governing Body had instructed brothers to make the new Bible as “witness proof” as possible, before adding that they had also made it “sister proof.” Jackson did not elaborate on what he meant by this remark, so it is impossible to say with certainty. My interpretation is that he was appealing to a sexist stereotype of women being overly concerned about how an item looks rather than what it does. Others have suggested he was merely hinting at sisters wearing their bibles out more quickly. These were his actual words from which you are welcome to form your own conclusions…
“The Governing Body asked the brothers involved with printing our bibles to do some extensive research, to test out different covers, to come up with a type of cover that is ‘witness proof’. And they went even further than that, they found some covers that are ‘sister proof’!”
In further remarks, Jackson acknowledged the lengthy shortage in the months leading up the Annual Meeting when bibles were in short supply. Instead of recognizing that the Governing Body could have done more to keep Witnesses informed and manage expectations, Jackson insinuated that Witnesses should feel guilty for getting impatient, saying…
“Of course, as Brother Sanderson referred to, and you rather guiltily acknowledged, we had a lot of complaints about ‘where are the Bibles?!’ Letters started to pour in. One sister wrote (pause for laughter), ‘We have had bibles on back order for three months! Now what on earth is happening? We need Bibles!'”
You will need to watch the video below to hear for yourself how Jackson paused for comic effect while relating the experience of an irate sister writing in with a complaint to Bethel. In making this joke, he undoubtedly drew on another disparaging stereotype of women as being overly demanding.
And Jackson’s controversial remarks did not go unnoticed even by his fellow Governing Body members.
Anthony Morris III, who is no stranger to making the occasional outrageous comment himself, joked about Jackson later in the program saying…
“Now here’s what Brother Jackson mentioned. We’re gonna repeat it – repetition’s the mother of retention – if you didn’t get it when he said it, get it this time. No reflection on your teaching Geoff, I… but I DID tell him ‘I think you’re in trouble with the sisters! It’s that one sister you’ve gotta worry about. Forgive me Mr Chairman. So here was the policy – ‘literal where possible, but never distort the meaning.'”
And later in his own item David Splane alluded to Jackson while making his own not-overly-funny joke about pronunciation in different accents…
“Everyone else up here’s been getting in trouble, I might as well too.”
Though various Governing Body members and even the audience were determined to see the funny side, it is nevertheless confusing that sexist jokes were deemed appropriate at such a “historic” and, for many Witnesses, deeply spiritual event. There is also the bible verse, “out of the heart’s abundance [the] mouth speaks.” (Luke 6:45) If Governing Body members are capable of making chauvinist jokes, then there is every chance that they are, in fact, chauvinists.
“Jehovah’s hand” at Wallkill
Then as Jackson’s item drew to a close he related how there had been concerns among the factory workers at Wallkill about printing a large number of new Bibles over the summer months. Apparently printing is problematic during the summer due to the risk of machinery overheating. But, according to Jackson, “Jehovah’s hand” came to the rescue…
“It’s interesting when we think about the production of this [Bible] we truly have seen Jehovah’s hand in helping the project. Just one example. The brothers in the Wallkill printery mentioned to us that normally the worst time of the year to print Bibles is summertime, because of the humidity, the heat. Oftentimes they have to stop the presses. But they told us this year when they had to do a lot of extra overtime to get these Bibles ready for us, and as you can see there’s one for each person here attending our program, this year there was no stoppage of Bible production! We had the mildest summer for many many years and we thank Jehovah for that.”
I could scarcely believe my ears as I heard Jackson’s words above. Natural disasters regularly claim the lives of countless numbers of people – including Witnesses. And yet Jackson here postulates that Jehovah arranged the meteorological conditions to ensure sufficient copies of the new Bible would be printed, when he could have instead spared people from being killed by earthquakes, landslides, hurricanes and tsunamis.
This grotesque flight of fancy by Jackson reminded me of the most recent Yearbook in which “Jehovah’s hand” was said to have been involved in a plane crash that killed 153 people in Nigeria because one Witness family, whose apartment the plane crashed into, survived due to being out attending a meeting. This talk is similarly disturbing in that it dismisses the feelings of any who have lost loved ones in natural disasters by suggesting that Jehovah is so selective and uncaring in how he chooses to intervene.
Of course, these are just my opinions and observations. You are welcome to reach your own conclusions by listening to the relevant part of Jackson’s talk in the video below…
The “new light” that never was
Those in attendance at the Annual Meeting would have been forgiven for being almost giddy with excitement after the build-up offered by meeting chairman Guy Pierce.
In his opening remarks, Guy Pierce hinted strongly (to put it mildly) that “new light” would be announced – even reading Proverbs 4:18. He then said…
“Will food at the proper time be served at this occasion? Indeed it will. Will bible truths be refined? Absolutely. So we have a lot of things to look forward to in connection with this program as we proceed.”
In fact, there were no “refinements” in bible truths as understood by Jehovah’s Witnesses. Over the course of the annual meeting, two new releases were unveiled, namely the new bible revision and the JW Library app – but nothing that could remotely be considered as “new light” as Witnesses understand it.
Many Witnesses would likely argue that Pierce was just being playful and using a play on words rather than being deliberately deceptive. However, I would suggest that, given the far-reaching ramifications that so-called new light can entail (especially as announced last year), it is wrong for a Governing Body member to goad his audience in this way and treat “new light” as a trivial thing. After all, if someone doesn’t accept a new understanding propounded by the Governing Body, he or she can be disfellowshipped and shunned. It’s therefore no laughing matter.
Strange family values
Perhaps the most destructive words spoken during the program were uttered by Gerrit Lösch, the Governing Body’s longest-serving member. Lösch is developing something of a reputation for making rather strange and morbid statements from the platform.
I have already created two YouTube videos of Lösch speaking. In one he likens those who seek to pursue higher education to OCD sufferers, and in another he paints a grim picture of the methods of execution to be employed by God during Armageddon and explains how teams of Witnesses will need to scour the planet in search of bodies to bury. Lösch is clearly not the sort of person you would ask to tell your child a bedtime story.
In his latest ramblings, Lösch evokes memories of the recent “Close ranks on Satan” and “Be on guard” Watchtowers by urging Witnesses to reject association with anyone who could be classed as bad association – even if they are family members. “We must not let family ties overshadow bible principles,” Lösch cautions. “Relatives who are not in the truth and not on the way to accept it could exert a negative influence in our lives.”
Those like me who are already under pressure from more devout Witness family members who follow every word written in the literature without question will shudder at the idea that absolutism is such a popular ideology among the Governing Body. Basically, if you do not subject yourself fully to the Governing Body’s self-proclaimed authority, even if you are not disfellowshipped, expect to see less of your Witness loved ones.
But that was not the only message Lösch was eager to convey. He also told parents to be more assertive with their children by “steering” them towards baptism – from as young as seven or eight if possible…
“Do they [children] start out as unbaptized publishers at seven or eight or so? Yes not all children are ready at that age but many would be. However some parents are holding them back. Some put the brake on the spiritual development of their children. So please parents, don’t be passive, but actively steer children towards baptism.”
This website reported recently on similar words spoken by fellow Governing Body member David Splane at a Zone Visit to Sweden. During Splane’s talk, he essentially told parents that pushing their children into getting baptized was the “wise” thing to do.
Based on this more recent talk at the annual meeting, the notion of coercing young children into making a lifelong commitment to a religious order seems to be a popular one among Governing Body members. I can only hope that thinking parents who listen to such misguided advice will remind themselves of Watchtower’s repeated instructions for them to shun teenage children who are disfellowshipped if they are old enough to leave home – as was unmistakably drilled home in a recent YouTube video.
The recklessness with which the likes of Lösch and Splane urge the pushing of baptism on children, even though they should be aware of the number of teenagers disfellowshipped year after year, is most disconcerting.
Business meeting, or publicity opportunity?
Perhaps like me you always considered the Annual Meeting to be a sober function at which business matters related to the Society were discussed in compliance with the law. As these meetings have become more public in recent years, I am steadily getting a very different impression.
Yes, achievements are read out, backs are patted, and a feeling is exuded that the organization is moving forward – but who exactly is this organization responsible to? What is the mechanism for voicing disapproval if the organization veers in a wrong or harmful direction? The fact that there isn’t any such mechanism makes the whole notion of this being an “Annual Meeting” almost laughable. There are no checks or balances, and the Governing Body can do precisely whatever it likes. The audience is just along for the ride.
Rather than serving any business function, the Annual Meeting increasingly strikes me as being a mere vehicle for projecting the personalities of the Governing Body and elevating these men before their doting audience. And they seem to love every minute.
I have already suggested that the manner in which last year’s “new light” announcement was made suggested great vanity on the part of the Governing Body. They had the opportunity and resources to disseminate a key change in understanding simultaneously to the entire worldwide brotherhood in all languages via the magazines.
Instead the Governing Body chose to spread the news to a small, select audience and let it spread slowly through word of mouth over many months simply because they wanted the instant fanfare and applause. After all, you can’t hear the brothers clapping while they’re reading the “new light” in their Watchtowers, can you? Much better to get the instant gratification and acclaim from a small audience, and keep the rest of ’em guessing.
We see precisely the same narcissism in the way the new bible has been released. Repeatedly during this year’s annual meeting jokes were made about the scarcity of bibles and how brothers had run out and were confused about what was happening. Not once was it considered that maybe, just maybe, the Governing Body could have better managed the expectations of brothers by giving them advance notice of the change.
But why would they want to do this? Far better to keep everyone in the dark with bible stocks running dry and no explanation why. That way the Governing Body could keep the element of surprise, heighten the suspense, and ride to the rescue to fix a problem they themselves had caused. The fact that, as the “faithful and discreet slave” it is their job to provide bibles and spiritual food at the proper time is an afterthought.
Forgive me if I sound overly skeptical. It’s just the more I see the Governing Body lapping up the adulation at these events the more I see them for what they are – power-drunk deluded men who are taking out their late-life crisis on 8 million people.
And when you consider the work they should be doing, such as saving Witness children from sexual predators and bringing an end to shunning and deaths from refusal of blood transfusions – releasing a new bible and building a museum display seems as futile as rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Rather than releasing a new bible I would much rather they read and apply the old one – especially the verse in Matthew 9:13 where Jesus says: “I want mercy, and not sacrifice.”
I gratefully acknowledge the unnamed persons involved in recording the annual meeting at great risk to themselves and thus making this article possible, hopefully for the benefit of all.
Further reading…
that’s so sad :( i remember being 8 and 9 and being really zealous about all this dirt.. when you’re that age, you believe what you are told, right is right and wrong is wrong and you believe it and do stupid things because of it… i hope he grows out of those thoughts though, and i hope you can hold on to him best you can until then.
I thought you weren’t allowed to visit sites like this. Not very discreet “brother”.
If you found the meeting so encouraging, why are you here? Obviously you have a problem.
The above post was in response to Vincent. Sorry, thought it would post beneath his.
I was there too and appreciated all the good humor and fun. These disgruntled people are mad and jealous because they left jehovah and this great organization and were not invited to the meeting. Ignore ignorance and count your blessings to be part of such a genuinely loving group!!
Too speak to your last point…this was a money making scheme..really? If that were the case they wouldn’t have given us the jw library app for FREE knowing that all witnesses with a tablet would be downloading it…they did this because they unselfishly love people and want everyone in the world to have access to these tools. Get a grip will ya?
Vincent, you do realize that the main and only reason the translators of the New World Translation remain anonymous is because they DO NOT have scholarly credentials? Any translator/publisher who translates a Bible has working knowledge of ancient Koine Greek, Hebrew & Aramaic which makes them authorized to translate the Bible from its original languages to English, etc. Frederick Franz spoke conversational Hebrew from which he taught himself, not Koine ancient Greek nor Aramaic. And Brother Gangas spoke modern Greek. None of the other GB were versed in any other languages aside from English. All these facts were verified by their sworn testimony in a 1950s “Walsh” legal case where they admitted to this on court reported testiomy. This is why they remain anonymous, not out of not seeking glory.
And something else. While the WTBS wholly condemns seeking out higher education, they SUUUUUURREEE love to quote “this professor said” “this scholar commented” blah blah blah. So they value scholarly/Ph.D level educated quotes in their publications but berate any JW seeking the same course. Open any Awake and Watchower and read a few sentences in and you see this over and over.
I don’t hate Jehovah anyore than I hate the tooth fairy. You cannot hate what doesn’t exist.
When Jesus looked at the Pharisees, and said, “I want mercy and not sacrifice,” imagine a Pharisee responding: “You are always so negative. What issues and gripes you have. What are you offering that is better?” Perhaps the Pharisees could have pointed to the Law, where the people were commanded to obey the older men. But Jesus was not concerned with their ability to defend their own authority. He was concerned with love.
Perhaps you could argue that not every criticism of the meeting here is appropriate. I wasn’t there, and you were. But I do respectfully disagree about the jokes being “in good taste.” Having someone’s gender be the butt of a joke is the very definition of poor taste, in my opinion. It doesn’t sound like Jesus, who stood out for treating women with respect and dignity. Suppose a non-Witness, an “interested person” were to be bothered by this joke. Are we not to be concerned or care about when our actions and speech might stumble another?
When I was a Witness, I felt the same way you did about people who were negative toward the Organization. You quote Gamaliel, and it is true that what is of God cannot be overturned by humans. Therefore, following this logic, the Governing Body should not fear other humans asking questions, raising challenges, or expressing their own ideas. If they are of God, they cannot be overturned. And if they are of God, then they will welcome correction when it comes to them. Scripture is overflowing with accounts of God correcting His people by using the most unlikely of mouthpieces.
As I had anticipated it in my previous comments, the Governing body has removed “[strong] testicles” from the “New truth Bible”!! Why “[strong] testicles” have gone with the “Old truth Bible”?
(Jeremiah 5:7, 8) . . .to the house of a prostitute woman they go in troops. Horses seized with sexual heat, having [strong] testicles, they have become. They neigh each one to the wife of his companion. . . (http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=Jeremiah+5%3A7%2C+8)
…they flocked to the house of a prostitute. They are like eager, lustful horses, Each neighing after another man’s wife. (Jeremiah 5:7, 8)!!
No more “STRONG TESTICLES” in “Sister Proof” Bible!!
You know for those claiming to offer a life of freedom, you guys sure seem enslaved to the past, apropos Jehovah’s Witnesses. You say you’re happy to have left, but still think of them & spend so much time stalking them. May i suggest you moved on as you all say you have & leave them alone? If you’re worried about the ills of families & society today, i assure you jws are not found on any such lists.
If you have the list, please add them on!! Share with us the list and tell us why they are not on the list! Sure, it is sad to here that and the GREATEST thing you can do now in your life is to make sure they are on the list.
Anyway, as they are now removing “Strong Testicles” from their Bible, I will consider if I they can be removed on MY list!!
I guess Jehovah is not on the list, too, despite the following from the “Sister Proof” Bible:
When David saw the angel who was striking the people down, he said to Jehovah: “I am the one who sinned, and I am the one who did wrong; but these sheep—what have they done? Let your hand, please,
come against me and my father’s house.” (2 Samuel 24:17)!!
tay swanson, As JWs are revising their Bible, you need to revise you thinking. Who wrote this referring to those leaving the WTS
“They seem inoculated with madness, Satanic hydrophobia [rabies]. Some of them smite us and then claim that we did the smiting. They are ready to say and write contemptible falsities and to stoop to do meanness.” (w94 7/1 p. 12 par. 11)!!
You should revise your thinking and help them to revise theirs. I am afraid Revising their bible does not equal revising their hearts!!!
Some of the changes of vocabluary are distinct improvements but I see that they didn’t manage to find a modern English expression for the archaic “obeisance.” A missed opportunity there for them to make more clearly the point that the Greek word “proskuneo” has a range of meaning from bowing or showing respect as to a VIP or civic dignitary, to worship.
I find it interesting that they have removed the alternative endings of Mark and the story about showing mercy in John 7:53 – 8:11. Usual translation practice is to include these with a note pointing out that they only appear in later (but nevertheless still early) mss. That is, there is some, albeit limited, justification for referenced inclusion of these passages. And this limited justification is vastly greater than their justification for including the divine name which doesn’t appear in any NT mss, only in late translations and other non-NT mss.
Vincent; Cedars does not need to offer anything. What he is doing is just to report, give his opinion and then its up to the reader to make up his or hers mind. You see, your governing body have painted a picture that they know it all and everyone should follow them… Guys like Cedars don’t need followers. So why don’t you just examine your own beliefs and stop asking others to tell you what to believe?
Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn’t the annual meeting of the Watchtower Corporation a business meeting prescribed by corporation law! Did any of the Governing body of the actual Watchtower Corporation speak at all, to the voting members of the corporation. The printing of Bibles is a Watchtower corporation matter.
Dear Dodge,
Thank you for your comment and letting us all know how you are feeling right now. You and your wife have put your heart and soul into serving Jehovah, and like many of us who have also done the same, you don’t feel appreciated.
I would love to do what I can to make you both feel better. Why don’t you both fill out Cedars survey, and tell the Governing body how you really feel.
How else can I help in a practical way Dodge?
70wks….
So…how come your on this web sight if you are so supportive of the WT? Are YOU not an Apostate just by being on this sight?
So why are U here if you are so wonderfully devoted to the organization?
No one is saying that Sisters should be Ministerial Servants or Elders however there are many occasions when Sisters are said to have a “complaining spirit” even for a simple suggestion. Should Sisters now be wearing a berkka and walking ten feet behind her husband?
Oh dear! The previous post from George was not from me!!
I shall change my name to avoid confusion.
Vincent – Sir, I understand that the article could appear to be unduly negative to one who does not visit this site regularly. However, if you take the time to view other posts on this site, you will realise that John Cedars and many other people are truly and rightly appalled at some of the actions of the Governing Body. This group of 8 men have ultimate authority over doctrine and practice. We all sincerely believe that they have made grave errors of judgement concerning many practices. We are all frustrated that they will not consider the proposals presented in Cedar’s surveys. Please be assured that we do offer something better. A Christianity restored to mercy, respect and tolerance. An embracing of all as God’s children, regardless of difference.
I hope that you will view the fine articles prepared by Cedars. I believe that you will come to agree with us.
That is better! That was weird! Seeing the name George and having comments contrary to my own opinion.
I am now excelsior! Onwards and upwards to an individual opinion. hurrah
George, whoever you are, don’t take my name! That’s not cool.
@tay
The same couse be said of JW’s. You claim to offer freedom from false religion yet you regularly go out to convince those of false religion that they are wrong.
I frequent and participate in sites like this to make sure as many interested people as possible are shown where the wt is wrong so that they can avoid being sucked in by this destructive sect.
@Tay, Then, what are all the articles my Bile student pulled up under google, Jehovah’s Witness child abuse and Jehovah’s Witness murder? The shunning policy alone damages families, or do you think emotional blackmail is sometimes warranted?
We have personally moved on, but want to know what our families are falling for and how we can help.
There is definitely something wrong with your reasoning, so if you are an active member and were so upbuilt by this “meeting” why are you on this forbidden “apostate” site reading this and taking part? Something doesn’t add up
This was no annual congregation meeting, it was a beating the slaves with a wet noodle meeting. Most normal congregation meetings put up issue’s to be voted on. Not one single vote was asked for.
Basicly it was just a cyber assembly.
JW’s are becoming impatient, like the rest of Christianity; where is jesus, where is god? So the governing body, as they always do, put themselves in jehovahs seat and show their faces to the sheeple to give inspiration that Jehovah is still alive and well and still speaking special elfish talk to them and them only.
The translators are still hid so they can escape scrutiny from real scholars. This time around though I would be willing to bet the governing body did the translating, another reason they decided to gloat their faces to the masses.
No doubt your articles are really touching some nerves in clear thinking people judging by the outpouring of comments, and rightly so. I could see as the expression goes Ray Franz rolling over in his grave right now at looking at the credentials of the current governing body members. No doubt they are not directed by Gods spirit as they lack the fruitages of the spirit as evidenced by their off color remarks when it comes to the rank and file members. It really goes to show how ones mind can be to accepting such talk because they are totally brainwashed. The bible talks about followers of Jesus as being Christ like. Do you think Jesus Gods own son a Perfect man was telling John the Baptist to make sure you baptize those converted people as early as 7 yrs old? Especially in light of the fact that he himself didn’t present himself for baptism until he was a grown man. So as usual they take everything out of context and twist and turn it to make it fit their agenda. They have to be by far the most hypocritical religion known to man. And the reason is, they do a better job then most religions in trying to conceal that fact. Now to the light keeps getting brighter scripture Prov.4:8 “The path of the righteous is like the morning sun,
shining ever brighter till the full light of day.(NIV)
Does this sound like its talking about the Jehovahs Witness organization as they believe and apply? The way I read it, is its talking about a path that a righteous one(singular) is on. Where through the study of Gods word he is enlightened as to the right things to do personally in relation to his(singular) relationship with God and not a organization making false claims of being spirit directed. The analogy of the morning sun rising and increasing shows such a person is enlightened as to what has already been recorded in the bible century’s ago. Not what a group of men believe to be their own interpretation of something they came to a conclusion on. In reading Ray Franz’s Book’s he makes several mention of the fact that most of the GB meetings didn’t have anything to do with what the bibles position on the matter said but rather their own personal idea’s. So here we come back to clear manipulation on the part of a group of men to fit their own agenda. If a business man looked at the Business end of this organization he would certainly see how duped the masses of converts are in donating to such a billion dollar a year enterprise. They are masters at smoke in mirror tactics and being very secretive towards their members. They speak falsehoods not truth. For if they did speak the truth they would at least be following in the footsteps of Jesus when carefully making their comments from the platform. I apologize on behalf of the Governing Body that you Sister’s had your feeling’s hurt over such comment’s. I know one thing is for sure and that God is not very happy with such talk and in your makers eyes your a very smart and beautiful creation that brings man much happiness.
Its because they always have to get the last word. You have to feel a little sorry for them as their minds have been taken over by such a destructive cult type organization. They are like people who commit serious crimes and don’t even realize it because of mental issues. They are essentially mentally incapacitated.
Cedars,
I am just now getting around to reading this article, and I just want to thank you so much for everything that went into it. I am absolutely sickened by the bile that was spewed in this “meeting” and even more nauseated at the prospect of my family members undoubtedly renewed vigor in shunning me and those who do not agree with them.
This is IMPORTANT work, and you do it well. Again, thank you!
Tay, if ,after 30 years, you escaped a mind controlling organization, but everyone you ever loved was still in it, and now not allowed to speak to you, wouldn’t you be kind of obsessed with figuring out how and why they do it? And how to find that one spark to get everyone you love to wake up? I hope someday you do.
Steering children to baptism as said by the GB does not mean pushing them into baptism without knowing what bible truth are. I was 15 when I got baptised, there are some bible truth I am expected to know. Like, where are the dead? Truth about christmas, trinity etc. So I have been able to defend what I belive in even whille still young. If a child is 7years and know all this, what should stop that child frm baptism? Or must a child knows all before getting baptised? Come on!
Must a child knows all before getting baptised? Really? Yes, absolutely they should know everything before getting baptised!!!!!
What an unbelievable comment!!
Tell me, Jonathan, would you sign a contract before reading it and understanding it fully? Would you dedicate your life to a cause without knowing it fully?
What if you changed your mind? What if you just wanted to leave and then all your friends and family disowned you?
Please, I appreciate your comments, but do you really think that someone should be baptised at any age without full knowledge of the religion?
To say that God fixed the weather, or to say that they said that is kinda pushing it.
What they really said is that they were thanking God for the good weather they had,. you can spin that however you want but that is what happened there with that.
salud
Why thank Jehovah for good weather if he had nothing to do with it? Think it through. Either he intervened or he didn’t. You can’t have it both ways.
The Bible records Paul thanking God for the recovery of a friend. Same logic then would apply: what about those other sick and elderly who passed away, how insensitive on God’s part.
Phillipians 2:27 “Yes, indeed, he fell sick nearly to the point of death; but God had mercy on him, in fact, not only on him, but also on me, that I should not get grief upon grief.”
So I generally don’t have a problem with it because how can can you actually prove or disprove it? It does come across as a childish statement like the publishers who insist ‘it was from Jehovah’.
The one bible account about Jacob and his flocks prospering (Gen 30) shows though that God can indeed be selective. So who can know all his ways (Rom 11:33)?
i love jehovah says: “These disgruntled people are mad and jealous because they left jehovah and this great organization and were not invited to the meeting. Ignore ignorance and count your blessings to be part of such a genuinely loving group!!”
ilj, your comment, labeling individuals as “disgruntled”, “mad and jealous”, and implying that they are “ignorant” brought to mind a 1990 Awake! magazine article discussing fallacies. I’m interested to know what you think about the following comments from that article and the corresponding correlation with your remarks:
“Attacking the Person ~ This type of fallacy attempts to disprove or discredit a perfectly valid argument or statement by making an irrelevant attack on the person presenting it….rather than weigh the merits of Jesus’ teachings, some attacked Jesus himself, saying: “He has a demon and is mad. Why do you listen to him?”—John 10:20; compare Acts 26:24, 25….How easy it is to label someone “stupid,” “crazy,” or “uninformed” when he or she says something we don’t want to hear….But while personal attacks, subtle and not so subtle, may intimidate and persuade, never do they disprove what has been said. So be alert to this fallacy!” ~ Awake 1990 5/22 p.12 Five Common Fallacies—Don’t Be Fooled by Them!
Awaiting your observations.
A Man For All Seasons
4th generation JW
“But do most people carefully analyze the real issues involved….? Or do they just accept what they are told?” ~ Awake 2000, 6/22, pg.6 par.10
They should be ashamed!
I once heard a speaker say a joke about how men are useless when it comes to the washing machine!
This sexism must stop!
Hear, hear!
Come on! Children understand marriage. I mean, not everything in detail, completely–but more or less. Do people really need to be grown before making a lifetime commitment such as this. No! I was an 8 year-old-bride. It was fine. Come on, don’t be such sticklers!
I beleave Jehovah guided me hear after much heartfelt prayer
Vincent,
If you think anyone is “clutching at straws”, then don’t be a selective reader, as there is a great deal of first hand proof that supports what Cedars is saying.
If you feel comfortable to even LOOK at this site, let alone read from it, then you aren’t really as “theocratic” as you pretend to be – after all, we’re all just a bunch of filthy apostates, right?
And, if you were present at that meeting and didn’t take exception to the comments made, then you are clearly still wearing blinders and couldn’t possibly understand what we are all trying to accomplish. The only ones doing any “tearing down” is the WTB&TS and the GB. Too bad their specialty is tearing down families and marriages!
Go back to the Borg, Vincent, and hang on tight. The “overturning” is coming and it sounds like you’ll be there to experience it, first hand. That’s okay, because we’ll all be over here, feeling sorry for all the ‘sheeple’ who didn’t know better.