A leaked letter addressed to all congregations, dated March 20 2014, has confirmed that district overseers will soon be a thing of the past.
The letter heralds this as a “significant decision” reached by the Governing Body, that will “affect the work of traveling overseers worldwide.”
“The responsibilities previously cared for by district overseers will be simplified,” it reads. “Some aspects of their work will now be cared for by experienced circuit overseers and Bethel representatives.”
Though there are no guarantees, it is expected that the majority of existing district overseers will be re-used by the organization after the role is discontinued on September 1st.
“This simplification will mean that many of those who are now serving as district overseers will be able to use their spiritual qualifications and rich theocratic experience in serving once again as circuit overseers.”
The letter concludes by recognizing “the role that district overseers have filled in training others and in strengthening the organization over the years.” It expresses confidence that former district overseers “will continue to be used by Jehovah in a mighty way in their new assignments.”
According to Watchtower theology, Christ selected the early Witnesses as his one true organization 95 years ago in 1919, and district overseers have played a role in that organization for decades. It is curious that it has taken this long for Christ, as head of the congregation, to find district overseers surplus to requirements.
All of the above is just stupid speculation. The WTBS has more money now than it has ever had. They are setting on hundreds of millions after the sale of the Brooklyn buildings. Thinner magazines? Cheaper? Going out of business? No, the general public’s attention span is just getting shorter and shorter and getting dumber and dumber so the magazines have to follow suit. And more and more people are getting their information from the Web so the GB is just following whats happening in society.
Sorry, they are not going anywhere. Its just as an imperfect organization as any other religion. It seems to me that most of the people on this website are people who just can’t take criticism from other people (yes I know its probably uncalled for and from very stupid self-righteous people that need to remove the rafter from their own eye).
Why would you resort to name calling? That makes no sense. Of course it’s mostly speculation. No one here or even most Jdubs even the ones at bethel don’t really know what’s going on. So we can ONLY speculate. But we can make fare guesses with the information we do have. Is the WT just going to fall apart sometime soon? No. And I don’t think anyone on here really believes that it will. Do we hope it will? Of course we do. It is a harmful cult. And if you do not think so then may I suggest reading a little more carefully the articals on this and other “JW Facts” style sites. And again there is absolutely no need for mindless name calling in my opinion.
Where is the name calling? Are you referring to yourself. Dangerous cult? I guess you base your opinion on baseless speculation but that’s okay when you are doing it.
First of all you said: “It seems to me that most of the people on this website are people who just can’t take criticism from other people (yes I know its probably uncalled for and from very stupid self-righteous people that need to remove the rafter from their own eye).” Who are you calling stupid? Who are you saying cannot take criticism? That is the name calling I refer to. Also to call the WT a cult is not me making it up or just labeling them as one because I disagree with them. They ARE a cult because of the mind control techniques that they employ. If you prefer I can use the phase High Control Group. But the two mean the same. They use fear tactics to control what their members do. They control what a member watches,listens to,wears,who they associate with,who they marry,and whether or not they will be allowed to see/talk to family and friends and even if your child or loved one will live or die (blood transfusions). And please don’t tell me that I don’t know what I’m talking or the garbage about every witness make his own decisions. I know better. I was a born in. I spent from 1972-20010 believing that crap.
If you don’t know these things then again please do some more research before commenting.
And as far as the speculation goes like I said it is just that. No one for one second is stating anything as gospel. It is all hypothetical. And it is for venting purposes. That is all. It is you who is taking it more seriously that it should be taken. Just because one speculates and they are dead wrong does in no way mean that they are wrong for wishing and wanting the complete collapse of the WT org.
Again to reiterate, calling the WT a harmful cult is no way a baseless claim. Just do the research. Read the articles on this site again. Read Combating Cult Mind Control by Chris Hanson. Those are good places to start. And if then you stil do not agree then maybe you should just go back to the KH and answer from the paragraph. and don’t forget to site a scripture for a ‘well-thought-out’ answer.
Why would I read some biased opinions from some of your fellow hurt souls? No thanks. People are always going to say things to hurt others. JWs or not. Intentionally or unintentionally. Sorry I have seemed to hit a sore spot with you. It was not my purpose. I am a JW that is a CPA\Tax Attorney. I WENT to school whilst a JW. People were always saying things to me about higher education, how wrong it is etc but they still used and use my expertise when they need to. It should never matter what other people say and do. My parents who were also raised a JW impressed that upon me. The JWs have a few (and I mean a few) things that other religions don’t have that seem very logical and obvious to me. Letting the GB or some elder or elderette rule your life is just plain stupid. They do not speak for God. They are not the Pope.
To me and by your own definition all religions are a cult because they all have some form of control over its members. The Catholic Church, Baptists, Born-againers etc. They all have something that puts fear in its members to keep them in line. BTW, what have you found that so enlightens you?
And yes our publications have been dumbed down. I could never imagine some of the people in my congregation understanding books I study when I was a child such as The Babylon has Fallen book etc. Which as a child I always wondered where they got some of that stuff from. Society in general has dumbed down, look at car magazines, news papers etc. They are all pictures now. Popular songs last at the most two minutes now. My teenage children laugh at how long some of my old Pink Floyd songs are. So it not just the JWs. Its society in general.
I understand many of us attended at various times during the different administrations of the JW organization. I remember FEAR as the quoted scripture in the hall time and time again. The Watchtower articles are well established in promoting fear the world, other members who are not towing the line, Jehovah, Satan, and any other knowledge that is not specific to the personal choices of the organization. I studied at a University which in your world makes me dumb and I should put a bullet to my head like the elder in the talk recommended educated people to think about doing. I left only to learn that I suffered from extreme fear of everything not JW. Years after recovering from indoctrinated fear that was programmed through books, videos, audio tapes, meetings, and family created by WTBS. I still struggle with minimal fears but when i left I dealt with suicidal tendencies from extreme abandonment from everyone I ever knew. If I had not learned the various control techniques used by this group then I never could have addressed them properly. Never trust my words but trust your heart to lead you to the real truth. STOP ignoring the obvious changes to recover from their ever changing lies. Ohh conveniently after decades of lies the new insight is to change the old views to fit today. Follow me into the rabbit hole Alice for the truth is confusing when it is so simple.
I think of this as being akin to the substitution of fully feature software with the move toward numerous, small and specialized “Apps”. The current attention span isn’t long enough to support the acquisition and assimilation of the knowledge necessary to efficiently utilize the former. “Dummies” want small tools that do one or two things, period.
Consider, when I was a kid we studied the original Babylon Book (remember the separate question booklets?) and I read it several times in the years to follow (including Hyslop’s “Two Babylons”). Can you imagine the current crop of novitiates absorbing that sort of thing? They are looking for “bite sized” portions in pretty colors, let’s think of it as “Theocratic Skittles”.
You are exactly right. I have also read those books and when I went through them again before I completely woke up I would get very strange reactions from those at the hall. They would be like; Why are you reading that stuff? It’s not necessary especial now with all the new light.
Yeah I can’t imagine new dubs reading anything in depth. Hell most cannot even explain 2520 years. And that is the very core of the doctrine.
Some of the modifications would appear to be right out of a typical “Change Management” and “Change Leadership” programs. A lot of the “management” portion (vision?) can be seen in the planned and implemented building and relocation operations. This has been ongoing for a couple of decades. Now we’re moving into a more “leadership” focused push (putsch?). It would be interesting to have an opportunity to review a before/after Org Chart of the Society’s structure. Some aspects have never seemed to be clearly defined, to the R&F.
Interestingly, I mentioned to my wife that discussions that we used to have in field-service car groups would now get you DF’d. We used to actually read and research the information being disseminated and then discuss it in the car group. I recall being in a group w/ two Ministerial Servants and the P.O. when the P.O. explained how the Society was wrong in the assertion of those enjoying an earthly resurrection being unable to marry. His position was that the question posed by the Sadducees was purely hypothetical and the context was directed at the “first resurrection” and that is why they were “very much mistaken” (being that they didn’t believe in the resurrection nor in heaven and spirits). Additionally, his argument extended to the effective creation of two (2) earthly classes. One, of those that marry, and another consisting of drones. His position was that rather than recognizing the context the Society was painting themselves into a corner by creating a situation that required a lot of workarounds. This left Jehovah with the task of “removing” the natural, innate and God given desires and all of the perceived unfairness that would result from a stratified society consisting of haves and have-nots (star-belly and plain-belly Christians). Now, we all argued the subject and had a great time and, incidentally, I had already arrived at the same conclusions he was sharing. We had discussions, such as this, on numerous occasions and yet recognized that the Society wasn’t perfect and that it would be fixed in due course. However, “changed” cannot be equated with “fixed” and it appears that such lively theological, doctrinal, and eschatological discussions would now be frowned upon. Although, last time I attended (about a year ago), I’m not sure if most in attendance possessed the requisite knowledge to engage in such a discussion.
The wizard is gone, the seer is no more. Only Fred Franz could reach down deep into his Miller, Russell, Rutherford, Knorr, induced religious slush fund of bible interpretations and create the fantastical tales as written in the pages of such books as Babylon the Great Has Fallen God’s Kingdom Rules.
I was just a young book study conductor when we had to wade (and I mean wade) through that tome of hog wash. I even at that young age, decided that instead of having some poor little jw youth try and read, even one paragraph with any sense or understanding imparted to anyone listening…was a losing cause. So even the second time around I read the paragraphs with as much gusto and false understanding as I could muster.
I probably devoted an entire month or more of my life to reading and trying, trying, mind you, of getting the sense of just how portentious and grand that publication seemed to be. I was looking around every corner for ‘the king of north’ to this or that as indicated. I took jw oaths as to the reality of what Fred visions forsaw in every current event or perceived fulfillment of this visions. Guess what that was almost 50 years ago.
If any modern day jw really tried to study that book TODAY they would surely have to disassociate upon completion of the effort. Think?
Exactly, and it is going on 50 years since we studied it. I seem to recall that we studied the first half (the original question booklet only covered the first half, if I recall correctly) and then the second half sometime later (not long before or after we went over the second Finished Mystery book).
How everyone looked for the fulfillment in every small political move by the USSR and UN.
The accuracy of the prophetic interpretations aside, the fact is that it would comparatively have consisted of “solid food” (albeit, specious). The current crop of publications lack the depth of the old Listening to the Great Teacher, and that was directed at children.
I would have to concur with your assessment, the present writers lack the imagination and creativity of a Fred Franz. We can expect simpler scripts, more CGI.
If you are referring to me that I think your dumb because you went to university your wrong. I did too, I even graduated, did you? I have four children and one has finished his BA and is taking the LSAT in July. One is just finishing her undergrad and is going on for a masters. The other two are still in high school. The gb should be sued for that illustration that tried to commit suicide but fixed himself to going to college. I went and my children are going whilst we are jws.
elderwannabe, you stated…..
“The gb should be sued for that illustration that tried to commit suicide but fixed himself to going to college. I went and my children are going whilst we are jws.”
Can we conclude that you don’t agree with everything the GB recommend? If this is the case what about other policies? Is the GB view on higher education the only thing you have strong views about?
Well done for going to uni, and well done for encouraging your children to do so as well. You seem to be very level headed about this topic in particular.
It’s nice to see you are reading our comments and responding. Stick around and read some of the other articles Cedars has posted.
I went to uni and became a Chemical Analyst. I gave up my career to pioneer, I regret this now. I have lost my home and cannot get a job sadly. I have experienced a lot of injustice from within the organisation due to their policies.
elderwannabe, it was nice reading your posts. I hope to see you post again soon.
Kate xx
Sorry you can’t find a job, but sadly that goes along with what a lot of the publications say. Getting a education is no guarantee. I just think they have no biblical basis to say what education you should get. To me even Jesus’s parents made sure he had a way to make a living. Its easy for someone that is sitting in a nice office not having to worry where there next meal is coming from to say you don’t need an education and just get by.
Pioneering wasn’t bad. You were just trying to help people, never regret that.
If you remember the Babylon Book you were around to remember the 1975 fiasco. The expections of 1975 didnt come from the bottom up but from the top down. It was more than an implication. We were told in 1969 dont bother with a career or higher education in this world because the end was only months away. When 1976 came the society fell back on ‘this generation’ with absolute certainty.
By 1995 they had to back track. And in 2011 the ‘generation’ was split into an A&B. Wake up and become a realist. Dates and expections have been used as carrots to attract people but after at least 5 clear and specific dates have been put forward can you not see that the watchtower cannot be God’s spirit directed organization. And so therefore is a Cult.
Don’t blame me that you listened. I was there in the 1970s.
As a matter of fact I remember being at an assembly in England and the brother giving the last talk said we probably wouldn’t be meeting here next year implying “the End” was coming.
If you remember yourself the apostles had no idea about anything and they were being taught by Jesus. My point is what is so wrong with hoping the end was near and the brothers trying to figure it out. You call them false prophets but were they saying that God told them it was 1975 or whatever date you want to use? No I don’t recall that, they mentioned that there are signs indicating what time period things would take place but they never said that God told them the world was going to end in 1975. So if you call them false prophets then you need to call the apostles false prophets too. Since you are so enlightened what “cult” have you joined now?
The bible says not to put your trust in men, wouldn’t that apply to the GB too? If you implicitly trust men you will be surely disappointed. I started my University education in the late 70s and I am surely glad I did. I get to drive a BMW to the kingdom hall.
You are jumping to conclutions as to where I am or what I belive. But your last sentance tells me you’re not that serious and its all a bit tongue in cheek.
Elderwannabe – it interesting to hear your arguments. Did you take Psychology in school? Many times people in leadership position use certain words to get people to act a certain way or do certain things. For instance a parent may say good girls do not wear mini-skirts. What does this imply if a woman wears a mini-skirt she is not a good girl? A father man say a man who is clean shaven looks more professional. What does this imply, a man who has a beard does not look professional. Have you heard of Pavlov Theory? That is what people in a leadership position can do is create a response to a position or wording over time. Such a spiritually mature Christian does not go to college. A spiritually mature person does not do this or that? Or things such as this may be our last assembly or last memorial. And by the way the Apostle ask when the end was coming. They did not go telling people it was coming to an end, there is a HUGE difference. The only thing Jesus told them was it was coming as a thief in the night and they should be ready. So if Jesus did not speculate why should leadership in an religious organization use speculative words.
The “Life Everlasting” book mentioned 1975 specifically. Additionally, it was directly referenced from the platform as the expected end. I recall brothers making precipitous purchases and even stating; “no big deal, I won’t have to pay it off anyway”.
What a surprise they were in store for.
So, having grown up with 1975 looming as the final hour, I believed but I also wasn’t surprised when the end didn’t occur.
Likewise, when my cousin (an elder at the time, in the late 80s, and for many years hence) mentioned that it had to come shortly, due to the end of the “generation” and our years being “70 or 80”, I responded that this was an observation of the Psalmist and God’s pronouncement was 120 years as the limit. I was actually quite surprised by the dueling-generations/overlapping generations theory (which is unprecedented by any standard – particularly a biblical one).
These tactics are employed to create a psychological sense of urgency. More recently we’ve seen the Climate Change Clergy employing schemes right out the the same playbook. When temperatures failed to rise, as they expected, they renamed Global Warming – Climate Change. Now, if temperatures go down, and you get snow, it’s Climate Change, if you get too much rain, it’s Climate Change, drought, flood, etc. etc. etc. …
Follow the money and take note of the investments of those that preach the “science” (and I’m neutral on this subject btw). The Carbon Exchange was expected to pass Trillions of $$$.
Similarly, I would expect the Society to reset or reinvigorate the Armageddon Doomsday Clock to fire the faithful and scare the uninitiated. Interestingly how we used to condemn the clergy for frightening the laity with Hell Fire. Hell Fire or Armageddon, what’s the difference?
I think the WT Society has created a bumper crop of ‘elderwannabe’s’. Witnesses who have a modicum of ‘critical thinking’ skills, who simply could not continue in the full fledged dissonance of a truly obedient (unquestioning) follower.
Thus a modern “Jehovah’s Witness” can (like Wanna) simply close off any guilt or pangs of conscience for actually disobeying the fds. He seems to be able to carry off this without the slightest hesitation. In one sense it is good right now, but what happens to indivduals like him when the current batch of gb’s give those “directions that may seem illogical or even unreasonable”?
Will he and others like him, be the final casulties of this religious empire of men? I do not think he will be so cavalier about his wise decisions of the past. Only to be forced to finally take a stand, when his family and friends may be on another road to nowhere.
Your post makes me wonder about the following; “All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. (4) Now is the time for any who may be putting their trust in secular education, material things, or human institutions to adjust their thinking. The elders must stand ready to help any who may now be wavering in their faith (WT-11/13).”
What sort of things could they be alluding to with the; “whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not”?
First off, while I’m sure that Strunk & White would have had some problems with this sentence structure, I’m not certain as to what they’re even discussing. “Strategic” in relation to what and in what sense?
The Israelites were instructed to mark their doorposts with sheep’s blood so that the Destroyer would “pass over” their homes. Admittedly, this may have seemed a bit unusual.
However, Moses had the evidence divine authority reinforced by the budding staff, staff-to-serpent, and pronouncement of the nine (9) previous plagues. Moses didn’t pronounce plagues and then reset the dates. They happened as per his warnings. Thus Moses possessed an unarguably established level of “professional – prophetic authority”.
Can the Society make the same claim? Or, can we liken it to a doctrinal Ship of Theseus? Since new/increasing light has left nothing of the original doctrine, what did Rutherford’s cabal have that led to their assignment as the FDS?
Critically, what is the Society/GB/FDS’s record that establishes it as the prophetic and ecclesiastical authority that should expect this level of blind compliance?
This is not intended to just bash them as a group. I’m just wondering if anyone (associated, DF’d, DA’d, etc.) can give me even the smallest nugget of prophetic realization enjoyed by the Society? Let’s say, hypothetically, that I really “want” to believe. Short of their assertions that Rutherford and Co. was appointed, what proof is there?
There is none! Even now, the WBTS is quickly making a fast departure from who these men were. The actual past of these men, Russell included has left a lot to the imagination
They aren’t going to have much money after the huge number of sex abuse cases within this freak show are settled!!
Wow, such a sagacious response. You must be so proud of yourself. But when one tries too hard to sound intelligent it becomes obvious the person is not. Sorry.
Better luck in your future posts.
I am in a cognitive dissonance now, exactly the same words I was thinking of elderwannabe, came from his ‘mouth’.
Even better luck in your future posts.
Meant for danman
I think they will be just fine. They are following the legal structure of the Catholic Church.
@elderwannabe
I have to agree. It seems unfortunate though, from a sentimental position. My grandfather was at Bethel for a few years in the late 40s. He always emphasized the Non in non-profit.
All they need to do now is diversify the portfolio and they’ll be on their way.
This place, like so many others, is just another stomping ground for the “disgruntled employees”. What you need to do is stop watching porn like your hero Cedars, or whatever other nonsense you’re involved in, and you won’t have to be counseled, thereby hurting your overly sensitive feelings.
Response – I wish I could say I’m flattered about your fixation with my private life, but why are you so concerned about what my eyes look at, or what I do with my penis?
Do you feel it’s healthy to meditate on what a complete stranger does to provoke his or her genitalia – or indeed relevant to the subjects being discussed on this site?
If anyone needs “counseling” here, I suspect it is you.
Hi response
Nit picking? Failing to see the rat in your own. When is the wts going to own up about the 607 B.C.E. lies and deceptions? and when it does the 1919 teaching that God and Jesus chose the wts as the true organization then goes down the gurgler.
What will you do then? I’m not an d/f jw.
Have peace
Duds
@Response,
Did you mean this?
“Shocking as it is, even some who have been prominent in Jehovah’s organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, and child molesting. It is to be noted, also, that during the past year, 36,638 individuals had to be disfellowshipped from the Christian congregation, the greater number of them for practicing immorality. Jehovah’s organization must be kept clean!” (w86 1/1 p. 13 par. 12)!!
The first porn, Jehovah vs David’s Women:
(2 Samuel 12:11, 12) . . .This is what Jehovah says: ‘Here I am bringing against you calamity from within your own house; and before your own eyes, I will take your wives and give them to another man, and he will lie down with your wives in broad daylight. 12 Although you acted in secret, I will do this in front of all Israel and in broad daylight.’”
@Response
So, what about the rest of us that haven’t/don’t need “counsel” and are just a bit disillusioned with the rapid and seemingly confusing changes to structure and doctrine that we are now experiencing?
In science, theories are subject to peer review. Being apparently “peerless”, the GB appointed themselves as the arbiters of all things.
Jesus performed miracles and passed various powers to his Apostles. They, in turn, laid their hands upon disciples and passed Holy Spirit. Once the Apostles died, there is nothing to indicate that this ability continued. These were powerful works that validated their authority.
With no clear succession and lacking the power to perform signs, what do we have to inspire confidence in the GB’s legitimacy? Failed predictions? Increasing light? Misapplied scriptures? The Faithful and Discreet Slave references in passages of scripture were meant to teach us by illustration. Beyond that, I see nothing to indicate that Jesus intended his followers to apply the illustration in a titular form. Beyond the illustration, there is no mention of it by the Apostles, etc. That something mentioned in such a tenuous and anecdotal manner can be used as the basis for an entire hierarchical structure is baffling. The Apostles weren’t looking for a “Faithful and Discreet Slave”. They didn’t ask “what will be the sign of the Faithful and Discreet Slave’s coming” or “what will be the sign of the Faithful and Discreet Slave’s presence”.
Neither the Apostles nor so-called “older men” make any mention of the Faithful and Discreet Slave. Ergo, please establish a Biblical precedent for the so-called Faithful and Discreet Slave’s ascendency. They are, effectively, usurping the Lord’s authority without clear evidence of a mandate to do so. If you can prove otherwise, please be so good as to share your revelations with us.
Additionally, how can I, in good conscience, preach a message that I now perceive as suspect? Consider, the message I preached as a child and young adult is now pretty much invalidated. I’ve seen the “faithful” apply the excuse that even historians and archeologists change their opinions on historical facts.
Big deal,
they don’t claim to be directed by God’s Holy Spirit. Why would God give us a highly defective and erroneous message to preach, that is in so much flux, that even the “faithful” can barely keep track of the circular and circuitous interpretations? Does this seem to be in his divine nature?
Even though the Apostles initially misunderstood some of Jesus’ teachings, they appear to have reached a relatively full comprehension in comparatively short order. Also, they didn’t vacillate like the GB. Look, I have no problem with an actual adjustment, but, for God’s sake do the adjustment and be done with it. Instead, the GB adjusts it one way, then back, then forth, and back, and so on. It’s also apparent that a lot of the vacillation is due to the GB members injecting their own personal tastes and feelings into subjects that are outside their jurisdiction.
Another issue, why can’t conscience matters be left to a Christian’s conscience? Why does the GB insist on overstepping even the position of the Apostles by effectively creating Theocratic Rules that are more far reaching than the Mosaic Law. They’ve created rules on issues never even addressed in the Scriptures. Why?
Total control?
If the Lord and the Apostles didn’t see fit to address something, it’s definitely outside the purview of the GB. Let conscience matters be left to a Christian’s conscience. Otherwise, we are not Free but rather slaves to the GB. I, for one, refuse to recognize their authority to usurp the freedoms granted to Christians by the Lord and the Apostles.
“I am Jehovah, I have not changed”. All through the scriptures, we have clear evidence of divinely approved succession. Why would Jehovah abandon a long-standing purpose of clearly identifying his servants and leave it to “faith” without a clear mandate supported by accurate interpretation of scripture? Lastly, why would Jehovah make fools out of his servants by allowing them to spend years “selling” something as “the truth” just to find out that it is now “old light” and worthless? Apparently it wasn’t “the truth”. “Truth” wouldn’t change. At least Divinely conveyed Truth wouldn’t.
Hi apochalypsis
I couldn’t agree with you more, old light should still be in harmony with the new light, it should be easily discernible.
Why does the wts stop you going back over its past history? Because their frighten it will expose them as false teachers. All their old teachings are now false and a d/f offense. Not a glorious past, and to think we are to believe the God of Love and truth was responsible for teaching them this. Please help!
May you have peace
Duds
Here’s another ‘carrot’: “Will this memorial be our last?” Our Kingdom Ministry, March 2014
Response,
What a helpful set of posts from you. I feel so much better now that I have stopped watching pornography 24/7 and other nonsense.
To think, there I was getting upset about child abuse and domestic violence and the shunning of people. What a fool I was.
Your post expresses your ignorance and complete lack of empathy. People have suffered. People need justice.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
@ Response
Oh here we go!
What is it with the JWs and their obsession with sex? I have never known a religion to dwell so much on what in the grand scheme of life is actually something trivial when outweighed by so many more important issues.
There was the married Elder and former missionary with his penchant for accompanying young brothers around the doors and asking them if they had any problems with masturbation!
The societies dictates and meddling in what married couples got up to in the privacy of their own bedrooms led to lots of marital problems when wives became worried that Jehovah did not approve of what they did with their husbands.
Then there have been the numerous judicial committees where three Elders have got a thrill out of taking advantage of vulnerable young girls to question them about whether they had Orgasms; did they enjoy it; did they engage in oral sex and how many times they had done it. Absolutely disgraceful.
Oh I could go on, but I won’t waste my time. For a religion that is so anti-sex, they cannot stop talking about it – and to talk about it means they must be thinking about it – and then they think that everyone else must be thinking about it too.
Cedars honesty deserves respect, the Organisations attitude towards Sex doesn’t.
@NowBecomingIrritated,
Obsession with sex is a very serious problem among JWs!
Jesus said: (Matthew 9:12, 13) . . .Healthy people do not need a physician, but those who are ill do. …For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.”
JWs are sex obsessed and think other people are like them! One of the reason of their sex obsession, in my opinion, are sex stories in their Bible: Lot and daughters, David and Bathsheba, Jehovah raping David’s wives (2 Sam 12:12), Etc.
They are so obsessed that
*** w86 1/1 p. 13 par. 12 Days Like “the Days of Noah” ***
Shocking as it is, even some who have been prominent in Jehovah’s organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, and child molesting. It is to be noted, also, that during the past year, 36,638 individuals had to be disfellowshipped from the Christian congregation, the greater number of them for practicing immorality. Jehovah’s organization must be kept clean!
They do seem to have an inordinate preoccupation with masturbation. “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”
A buddy of mine did a year at Bethel in the early 80s. He had a masturbation problem and went to one of the elders. He said elder didn’t even discuss it. Rather, he handed him a printed page containing the applicable scriptures and told him to go, read it over and look them up.
His take was that the “problem” was so prevalent that they didn’t even have time for one-on-one counsel on the subject.
When the Society dictates that something that isn’t mentioned in the Bible is wrong, they inject the all-encompassing/overarching theory of “loose conduct”. This seems to cover whatever some old guy Brooklyn has a problem with. If it’s not mentioned in Scripture, they resort to stating propaganda like; “if this isn’t objectionable, then what is”.
How about the; “teaching the commandments of men as doctrines”?
@Excelsior,
Do not expect JWs to have empathy!! The Watchtower gives clues to know who are the most Jehovah’s Witnesses. Here are two clues:
1)Most of them “used to be thieves, drunkards, gang members, or drug addicts” (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/ws20140515/golden-rule-in-your-ministry/)
2)*** w11 8/15 p. 22 Questions From Readers ***
A number of factors—including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance—might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling
These are people who have a questionable up bringing. What do you think of this one man “From Child Soldier to Regular Pioneer” who “fought many battles and committed terrible atrocities” (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/2014-yearbook/sierra-leone-guinea/child-soldier-to-pioneer/)
If you expect from these people empathy, you will be disappointed! These are the ones who will now fight for shunning those who leave the borg!! They are sick and have no other place to go!!
Response,
Is that true about Mr Cedars? That explains why he is so bitter. He says his is this site is not biased but that is illogical. Its whole purpose is to distort the truth about a imperfect organization. Yeah they make mistakes and are not perfect but a least they try to help others. What are all these wonderful and enlightened people that post all these speculative and ridiculous comments about JW’s doing to help their fellow man? I suspect nothing.
@Elderwannabe,
To help who? Their fellow man?
*** w07 7/1 p. 13 par. 4 Highlights From the Book of Ezekiel—I ***
We do not need to let our eye feel sorry for those who receive God’s adverse judgment or feel compassion for them.
*** jr chap. 9 pp. 112-113 par. 19 Avoid “Seeking Great Things for Yourself” ***
Some may find it sobering to think that they might survive with only their “soul” as a spoil, but that actually should be no disappointment at all. Recall that while people of Jerusalem were dying from the famine, Jehovah preserved Jeremiah alive.
You need to study psychology to understand the things above. That’s how JW’s help their fellow men!!!!!!
@Elderwannabe,
You deed to have your IQ measured. You are saying “they make mistakes and are not perfect but a least they try to help others.”
How do they make mistakes? (Matthew 15:14) . . .Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit. . .
I will come back to you after you have fallen in a PIT!
What help do they give to their fellow men? What help do you need?
(John 6:25, 26) . . .When they found him across the sea, they said to him: “Rabbi, when did you get here?” 26 Jesus answered them: “Most truly I say to you, you are looking for me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate from the loaves and were satisfied.
You see, what do you want to eat so I help you? Do you think a gentlemen could follow Jesus just to eat from the loaves? PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO ARE ANGRY AND HUNGRY are LIKE those who followed Jesus in the 1st century.
You cannot beat a good argumentum ad hominem now, can you?
Sexual behavior is normal by nature since all creatures perform this act in some form. By condemning sexual urges this is ignoring your biological responses to needs to reproduce. Any group that condemns sex is naive by not understanding the nature of life. Sexual exploration is normal in mankind in many different forms. We as a society and culture condemn what we want and create the acceptable way of handling these normal urges. Cedars is no different than I was during my youthful years as a JW. I believe that if I did not masturbate as a JW youth than I would have eventually had sex with a sister to young or been forced to marry early. I think these matters are trivial because it is human nature and forcing it to hide makes to many secrets. Yes JW’s have alot to learn but many actually realize the false teachings but choose to stay anyway. I lived in the stages of urgency and alluded years of the last days but now it is childish to consider only those that select to believe in those rantings truly do. In conclusion this organization deals with real people that are human by nature so mistakes will be made but as long as they have followers it is their choice on all matters. All religion oversteps its rights on our daily lives that is why I threw my bible away. I no longer agree with biblical scripture as it has deceived most of mankind. If the world keeps it then we are doomed as to many interpretations exist today from one book with 66 smaller writings of ancient thoughts and beliefs. I respect you all for your views and forgive those that argue with anger but whatever the law we ALL are bound to our human nature.
As with most religions, sex is the most important issue they want to control because it is the deepest instinct we have, and once you give up the control of your sexuality, you have given your entire being. Not of exclusive use of the WT – almost all religions aim to control it, as much as they can. Only that the WT is a reactionary and backward cult, and they still prey on their people.
“What are all these wonderful and enlightened people that post all these speculative and ridiculous comments about JW’s doing to help their fellow man?” sneered ElderWannabe.
Well WannabeElder, I am happy to enlighten you;
I work hard to provide for myself and my family so that I do not have to be a burden on the state and I do my utmost to support my aged parents, one of whom has Alzheimers.
Aside from my busy secular and home life, I am also involved in the voluntary mentoring of children in the community who are struggling because of various circumstances in their young lives. I encourage them to learn about nature and help them with their learning and how to communicate with other people.
I should add that as a mentor I am careful about the choice of reading material that is chosen – ensuring that it is always wholesome and upbuilding – unlike the poor little brother in one of Cedars previous posts who found himself reading to an avid congregational audience about rape.
The mentored children blossom and flourish and I can quite honestly and humbly say that I have never before found such fulfillment and joy – certainly not when my contribution to human society was based around trying to convince people that they needed to read the Watchtower and conform to the Societies directives.
I do not record the hours that I spend helping others, nor do I expect accolades; doing so simply because I genuinely love and care for others. I help people unconditionally and whilst respecting their way of life, all that I would ask back is that I am respected equally – something that JWs seem unable to do.
But if this is what your goal is, then I hope you too can find fulfillment in your life if you achieve your wannabe Elder status.
I find it interesting that some who are JW’s come to this website and converse so freely with Df’d and “apostates”. Then they pridefully brag about their financial state, “I drive a BMW to the Kingdom Hall”…Where are the fruitages of the spirit that are taught so often in the organization? Then they criticize spelling and grammar and avoid all questions to the issues raised.
If they are trying to “win souls” they would do better by being silent. After all, isn’t the preaching work the focus of JW’s? They are not helping their organization with their witless comments. And wishing “luck” , oh my! How far from the flock they stray!
My guess, people have too much time on their hands and need an audience. Ignore them and they will leave…Apparently, their current position in the organization hasn’t giving them the attention and power they desire.
If they do ever become and elder (which I hope never happens), I sure hope the “holy spirit” discloses their visits to “apostate websites”.
You’re a flake
Elderwannabe – you know what I think. I think you are not a Witnesses and just are here for the fun of it. Interesting enough when some one brings up a topic you can not address with out some sarcastic comment you ignore the comment or question. I notice you did not address my Pavlov Theory comment. Or the one where I stated the Apostle only ask Jesus when the end would come, they did not go around preaching it. Can you have a discussion and answer real question or are you only capable of looking at small things people post like misspelling and grammatical structure. My experience has been such a person really does not know how to form a logical response to difficult questions and comments and when backed in the corner only look to pick at little things.
Thanks! I always wanted to be a snowflake!!!