Echoes of the 1930s as Governing Body asks Jehovah’s Witnesses to mobilize for letter-writing campaign
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Jehovah’s Witnesses are being urged to protest the treatment of their fellow worshippers in Russia

As the threat of a total ban on their activities in Russia looms closer, 8 million Jehovah’s Witnesses have been asked by their leaders, the Governing Body, to participate in a letter-writing campaign protesting the infringement of religious freedoms.

A press release posted to JW.org yesterday called for a “direct appeal to Kremlin and Supreme Court officials for relief.”

It was further pointed out that, quite apart from resulting in the seizure of Watchtower property, the proposed ban would make individual Jehovah’s Witnesses “subject to criminal prosecution for merely carrying out their worship activities.”

In a PDF sheet accompanying the press release, Witnesses have been given detailed instructions on how to write their letters, how soon to send them (no later than April 1) and what information to include. Addresses for the likes of Russian President Vladmir Putin and Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev are supplied, along with orders to “not mention the names of individuals in Russia who are Jehovah’s Witnesses” for fear of reprisals.

Not without precedent

As the press release points out, this is not the first time Jehovah’s Witnesses have been mobilized in this way. A letter writing campaign 20 years ago in response to a “smear campaign by some members of the [Russian] government in power at the time” is cited. Correspondence-based protests over persecution of Witnesses in Jordan, Korea and Malawi are also referenced.

One example curiously absent from the JW.org article is that of the 1934 letter-writing campaign urged by then-Watchtower president Joseph Rutherford against Adolf Hitler, which receives mention in the 1993 book Jehovah’s Witnesses – Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom (page 693):

Early the following year [1934], a personal letter regarding the situation was written by J. F. Rutherford to Adolf Hitler and delivered to him by special messenger. Then the entire worldwide brotherhood went into action.

Joseph Rutherford tried a similar letter-writing strategy in 1934 after previous attempts to charm Hitler failed

Rutherford’s letter, a follow-up to a letter sent by Watchtower in 1933 aimed at placating the Nazis, threatened Hitler with repercussions in the form of “publication throughout the earth of the facts” regarding his persecution of the Witnesses.

When Rutherford’s deadline passed without any sign of let-up by the Nazis, a flurry of telegrams was sent to Hitler from Witnesses in Britain and America including the warning: “God will destroy you and your national party.”

Fast forward to 2017 and the approach being taken by Rutherford’s successors may be less bombastic and inflammatory, but it is just as unlikely to bring relief to Witnesses in Russia. More likely, Putin’s regime will be angered by the inundation of millions of cookie-cutter messages of indignation unleashed in countless languages, and may even feel emboldened to intensify their actions.

If Hitler’s response to the letter-writing approach was to famously snarl “This brood will be exterminated in Germany!” can we expect someone like Vladmir Putin to react differently?

Don’t get me wrong – though I am personally strongly opposed to the leadership of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and firmly believe that some of the Governing Body’s more harmful policies should be given much closer scrutiny by governments (especially shunning, manipulation to refuse blood, and covering up of child abuse on an industrial scale) as an “apostate” former Witness I am against what Russia is doing.

Banning: the wrong strategy

As I have already argued, a ban is the wrong approach to take when dealing with cultic movements. It drives them underground, making it far more difficult to hold their leaders accountable for their more harmful practices.

A ban would also, as JW.org points out, be an infringement of the religious freedoms of individual Witnesses in Russia (per article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights). Yes, there may be hypocrisy in the fact that Watchtower routinely violates the religious freedoms of former Witness “apostates” like myself through shunning, but two wrongs do not make a right.

Despite the fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world are justified in their indignation against Putin and his thugs, the fact remains that they are being asked for little more than a token gesture of solidarity. A mountain of paper detritus in the Kremlin’s mailroom will do nothing but irk and enrage, making the plight of those most vulnerable to Russian oppression only more precarious.

Protests at Russian embassies by Witnesses would have at least caught the attention of the media, with the prospect of increased external pressure on Putin’s regime, but Jehovah’s Witnesses typically shy away from the slightest whiff of physical confrontation. Hence, Rutherford’s paper-based model of antagonizing maniacal despots is the go-to approach for the current Watchtower leadership.

Whichever way we look at it, the plight of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia is grim and these beleaguered people deserve our sympathy and solidarity. Nobody deserves to be robbed of the right to believe what they want by their own government, no matter how damaging or detrimental those beliefs may be.

It is already bad enough that Russian Witnesses are being taken advantage of by their religious leaders without their government turning on them and threatening to hunt them down like fugitives simply for being cult victims.

We can only hope that, sooner or later, Witnesses in Russia will realise that the organization to which they pledge allegiance just so happens to be completely unworthy of their time, dedication and loyalty.

Hundreds of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Nazi Germany died under the misapprehension that they were championing Jehovah’s “theocracy.” It is my sincere wish that Witnesses in Russia will not similarly be made to suffer before they realise that true paradise comes in the form of the freedom to think for yourself.

 

Author of The Reluctant Apostate, now available from Amazon in hardcopy and on Kindle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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506 Responses to Echoes of the 1930s as Governing Body asks Jehovah’s Witnesses to mobilize for letter-writing campaign

  1. Doc Obvious says:

    Science has answers. Watchtower has problems.

    Science has jobs. Watchtower has slave labor construction jobs.

    • Winston Smith says:

      Doc,

      Science is a mechanism and methodology for finding solutions and answers. Watchtower (and many other religions in general) have no need for finding solutions and answers; because they claim to already have them all.

      WS

  2. Doc Obvious says:

    Similarities between U.S. President Donald J. Trump and Watchtower Babble and Tract Society.

    Trump offers no apologies. Watchtower offers no apologies.

    Trump lives in a fantasy world. Watchtower lives in a fantasy world.

    Trump is into commercial real estate. Watchtower is into commercial real estate.

    Trump criticizes the media. Watchtower criticizes the media.

    Trump loves mind control. Watchtower loves mind control.

    Trump brainwashes people. Watchtower brainwashes people.

    Trump keeps babbling on and on. Watchtower keeps babbling on and on.

    Trump relies on alternate facts. Watchtower relies on alternate facts.

    Trump has all the answers. Watchtower has all the answers.

    Trump believes that he is the greatest. Watchtower believes that their the greatest.

    Trump devalues science. Watchtower devalues science.

    • Winston Smith says:

      As I have said before, let stick to the issues with Watchtower and leave the politics for other sites.

      Doc, the statements above are prime examples of Rhetorical Fallacy, in which Watchtower demonstrates expertise of the highest order. It is unbecoming to stoop to their level when criticizing a politician we don’t particularly care for.

      WS

      • Doc Obvious says:

        I believe the 2 personalities are quite similar. Since both live in, or near the New York City area. I am talking about philosophy on life beyond politics. Maybe it is something in the drinking water. I have no idea. These are just my observations between the 2 sets of people.

        • outandabout says:

          you just go, Doc. Keep on sharing those observations.

          • Lynaire Williams says:

            The above comments are disturbing to me and I have tried hard to ignore them and not butt in. I am with Doc Obvious and out and about. Of course this an ExJW site, but surely ignoring the world with all it’s possibilities and probabilities, is what got you all into this pickle in the first place.
            Both Watchtower and Trump are part of this world , they have the same frightening “modus operandi” and are both very,very dangerous. This is far beyond politics. It is about rapacious greed and inability to feel another’s pain.

    • Meredith J says:

      Doc obvious. I followed all the Trump campaigns in Australia, yes it was on live on Aussie television and was gobsmacked at how many lies were told about Trump. Talk about fake news. Anyway, Satan has continuously tried to shut Trump down as he has the backing of the evangelical Christians in America. He prays before important decisions with his fellow Christian workers, while he gets hammered by people who believe the fake media that is so prevalent today, Satan’s most effective tool. To find similarities between Trump and Watchtower is, well it’s just plain silly to me. Trump is true blue and stands on his own as his own man. He just says what he thinks. He sincerely just wants to fix things up. And I am sure God has and will use him to fulfill some of the prophecies in the last days as we head towards the end.

      Watchtower, the media and all the devil’s cronies are on the other side. Can’t believe that Witnesses have not worked that out yet. Can’t you tell anymore who is on whose side in the scheme of things, because that is really really important as time goes on. Work out whose side you want to be on, the side of right or the side of wrong and there is your answer for everything. Jesus is absolutely on the side of right, no questions. It’s a sheep and goats thing. So simple.

      • Rodger Goode says:

        Yes, Yes, Yes – who owns the media, hollywood, music, social media, wall street, big business, pharma.. and how do they feel about Jesus??

        • Meredith J says:

          Yes, and how do they feel about the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Royal Commission. “Let’s just keep that one at the bottom of the pile, heh? We don’t want those JW’s to find out the truth and then leave.” If you google Jehovah’s Witnesses, notice for the most part it is only nice stories like how good JW’s are that they are sending letters to Poutin to stop the ban on poor Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia. Poor Watchtower being persecuted like that. Not true, just try it. Very little on Royal Commission stuff. It’s rigged. Who owns the media? You be the judge. Watchtower are in it as thick as thieves.

  3. sweetyj says:

    My family just write those Russian letters and sent it off. I told my mom that I didn’t want to mail a letter to russia so i didnt.Now she teases that I think russia is out to get me but I must be strong in the face of persecution like them…. but I just didn’t feel right. One bro I spoke to said you must use your personal address because that is what the instructions say. You can’t even use the kingdom hall address.

    • OntarioNB says:

      I wonder if the GB used their personal addresses too.Some enterprising Russian could collect them and sell them back to us.

  4. Caroline says:

    messenger I have a rather long comment in reply to your comment where you asked me for scriptures why I believe that Moloch is actually Jehovah. Can you look at my comment and reply please? You will have to go to older comments and scroll up. It’s pretty long and hard to miss. Thanks

    • messenger says:

      Okay Caroline. But I’ll do it tomorrow…its late here and I’m sleepy.

      You take care Caroline. And it is nice to hear from you again. I hope things are okay with you.

      messenger

  5. Ted says:

    @ Messenger, You say WT has never claimed it’s lit.
    was inspired. as you surely know, there’s more than one
    way of expressing an idea. The following extract from their
    lit, will explain what I mean.

    Whom has God actually used as his prophet? 14 By the historical facts of the case Christendom is beaten back in defeat. Jehovah’s witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them. All the preaching and all the Bible educational work that they have done till now in 175 countries and islands of the sea they confess has been, not by help of a military army, nor by human power, but by God’s spirit, his invisible active force. (Zech. 4:6, AV) It has been because Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths. WT/1/15/1959. PP, 40-41

    So the claim is they are Gods modern day prophets, on a par with
    ancient men like Jeremiah etc ( quotes are available that they have
    actually stated that). Notice they say God touched their lips and
    put “HIS WORDS” in their mouths. Their words “HIS WORDS” for
    over a 100 years have been transmitted mainly through the lit.

    If that’s not intended to surreptitiously convey the message that
    their literature is God inspired. Then the English language cannot
    be trusted. Best wishes, Ted

    • messenger says:

      What is true is they cannot be trusted. They have put out statements like that, when they don’t mean what those actually say. Remember the court case WT just had where it argued opposing positions? Who was it? JR I believe, said one reason they lost that argument is because the law estoppel (you cannot argue opposing positions)?

      I don’t know what WT’s position is in court was when it did that, but I know its position in theology when it does it. WT has certain fundamental beliefs about itself, that it will at times mask as much as it can, to brag, and imply it has even more authority and direction from God than it believes about itself. Your quotes are some instances of this occurring.

      And if questioned WT reps (servants) would point out why those words don’t really mean what it looks like. They’d reason and if necessary pull out a TRUMP card to a JW follower. Their trump card is another WT. One that what they would say, shed’s light on the topic.

      What I said is what WT really believes…its not inspired…its not a prophet in the since Jerimiah was, even though they do teach they have a “Jerimiah class.”

      Ted I do believe those words were meant to convey the message you brought out. But if you asked a servant about that he would deny it.

      WT believes its a prophet because it tells of future events that are in inspired writings. WT believes Jeremiah was a different sort of prophet, one that received messages from God and shared them. In those scrip WT does misleadingly take that position…and WT is aware it is not true…it teaches its not true.

      I guess kind of like its court case. We aren’t clergy, but we have clergy penitent privileges. I’d like to see a poor person attempt to get away with that crap in a superior court. When an org is rich it get away with a lot…lying in and out of court. The power of money and fame.

      • outandabout says:

        Watchtower is just another religious Cult struggling to remain relevant in the age of information. No more and no less.

        • outandabout says:

          In fact, the whole of Christianity is struggling in the Western world. Only in times of tragedy or disaster does Man look skyward. Magical thinking. It’s in us whether we like it or not.

          • outandabout says:

            What I mean is, we just have to know the answer, and if that answer is not forthcoming, we will invent it. If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him. That’s just the way we are. That’s the trouble with being intelligent.

    • Meredith J says:

      Oh Ted, that is what Watchtower tells you and you believe it. Please do your research, and not from a Watchtower index. I got rid of all my stuff years ago. It is just full of lies and propaganda.

  6. outandabout says:

    God is black and his name is Morgan Freeman.

    • messenger says:

      That movie had a nice twist to it. Was that the movie that had a modern city(man as Noah) build an arch in the city. If I remember correctly some flood happened because of a dam or something breaking.

      Good one buddy!

      • outandabout says:

        I think the movie you are referring to starred Steve Carell, messenger, and may have included Morgan.
        I was actually being serious. Morgan Freeman has been God in movies about three times and even hosted a series on religions around the world. There’s a message there for sure and God is delivering it right into our living rooms. Only a closed mind can’t see it. I could do a ‘Watch Tower’ and dig up a scripture or two, give them a twist and ‘prove’ that. If it appears in the bible, it must be true.
        I reckon you’re in the mood for a stir.

        • Meredith J says:

          I wouldn’t be too sure about that outandabout. Why would God approve of an imperfect person playing Himself especially in the context of a comedy? Anyway, I am very skeptical of anything coming out of Hollywood especially to do with someone claiming that they are God. Don’t get fooled. These are days are days when we should be extremely awake and not sucking in Satan’s poison. God has given us the Bible and a complex brain to work things out and He expects us to reason and act on that reasoning with scripture.

          • Meredith J says:

            Sorry Ted, I don’t mean to tick you and others off. I mean well. I have recently decided to call a spade a spade and I don’t mean to sound like an ogre. Watchtower brainwashes us so much, we need new lines of thinking to re stabilise our brains, because Watchtower teaches us not to think.

          • outandabout says:

            Yes, but Meredith, we’ve been reasoning with our complex brain for 2000 yrs and it’s not working, so God has is trying another line on us and appeared in the form of Morgan Freeman. He’s decided that his threats have just caused a lot of confusion and so he’s trying a bit of comedy to see how that goes.
            What!?…..you believed WT’s story. Whats wrong with mine?

          • Meredith J says:

            Well, at least you’re thinking outside the box outandabout. Haha.

        • messenger says:

          Don’t have time for that buddy. Like I told Caroline, choose your own god. That’s your business. Its not my concern.

          But, best wishes to you for the one you choose. I’m out of it. Not my business.

          • outandabout says:

            Aha!….’choose your own god’. You slipped up there, man. I thought their was only one to choose from?

        • messenger says:

          The proof I was shown concerning God’s existence was quite a bit more convincing. But outandabout it’s always good to hear from you.

          I’m a little surprised you’re ready to lose another argument involving the progression of logical thought. I thought you disappeared after losing your last argument.

          Hey, let me ask you this one outandabout. Did you pay that guy Randy to attempt a logical response to the awkward predicament you found yourself in? If so, get your money back. His reasoning didn’t even address the issues I raised. A side step I call it. He might have needed better reading comprehension skills when reading my posts. Or, he saw there was no help he could provide, and so skated the issue by arguing common sense issues that did not address my claims.

          Maybe that’s a strategy you might use in the future to make your points. There are a lot of slow thinkers out there. It might work on them. Hey buddy….let me diagram the tactic for you.

          My opponent states X
          I can’t disprove X so I’ll claim he said something else, Y, and argue against Y because I can prove that. Anyone that’s not a moron can prove Y, because if those points in Y that were presented are not common knowledge, those points were so simple they should be.

          Yep outandabout, there are a lot of slow thinkers that might work on. But you know that strategy is deceptive. Don’t you buddy?

  7. Ted says:

    @Caroline, Thanks for your exhaustive research on human
    sacrifice, and whether Yahweh is actually Moloch.

    I thought the text you gave at Lev, 27:29, was very pertinent.
    The Hebrew language there refers to “The irrevocable handing
    over of things or persons to Yahweh, for total destruction.”

    So it’s right there written in the Mosaic Law, Human Sacrifice
    sanctioned by Yahweh-Jehovah. One thing is clear, if Yahweh
    is not Moloch, then there’s very little difference between them.

  8. Ted says:

    Meredith , There’s no need to apologise to me I’m not
    offended in the least. I think you may have misunderstood
    the purpose of my post. It was to show that WT org, has
    claimed to be the modern prophet, but I certainly don’t
    believe their claim. I agree with you completely, that their
    literature is full of lies and propaganda.
    Best Wishes, Ted.

    • Meredith J says:

      I realised that I might have misunderstood it when I read it over again. It was an over reaction on my part. That can be part of my personality. I just did it to Ted too. Love you guys. We need to support each other as we’ve been through a unique experience. I think Satan wants us to feel alone and confused. That is exactly where he wants us. Jesus is the opposite. He says he is with us all the way, right till the conclusion and I believe that.

  9. Ted says:

    Prove your love for me by murdering your only son.
    Only a psycopathic narcissist could make such a demand,
    and no rational person would contemplate going along with it.

    So Yahweh didn’t tell them to sacrifice their children! He just
    looked on while they did it. Which is consistent with the
    actions of an un-feeling psychopath.

    There’s a glaring inconsistency here. He allowed them for
    40 years to rebel by sacrificing children to other god’s, yet
    when certain ones challenged Moses authority, = Yahweh’s
    authority he acted instantly opening up the earth and
    burying the dissenters .

    I could never again accept any of this as factual, and much
    less regard Yahweh,-Jehovah- the Tetragrammaton as
    someone worthy of worship or even respect.

    I agree with modern archaeological opinion. That the old
    testament is redacted history, sanitised to make the Hebrew
    Nation and their God look good. And written long after the
    supposed events.

    • Jennifer says:

      We have been taught to think of God as not having taken
      shape. He was there in the beginning, fully formed and then
      he gave form to everything else.
      History, however tells a different version. The Israelites
      religion evolved from the ancient Canaanites, who worshiped
      numerous deities. One of these was El, or most high, also
      Yahweh, god of weather and war and his consort, Asherah,
      goddess of motherhood and fertility.
      At the beginning of Iron Age 11, the monarchy promoted
      their family god, Yahweh as the god of the kingdom. Beyond
      the royal court, religion continued to be polytheistic. El and
      Yahweh became fused and Asherah did not continue as a
      separate cult, although she remained popular.
      As Ted and Caroline have already pointed out, if we were
      aware of Yahweh’s murky past, would we still be so eager to
      dedicate our lives to him?

      • outandabout says:

        Jennifer….’would we be so eager to dedicate our lives to him’?…..well, yes, apparently. People either choose to believe or are told to believe by their parents and they filter out the acceptable and ignore the unacceptable, as you already know. I don’t care what people believe, although at times I might not show it, especially when I say things like “Man is afraid of the dark and needs a god as his teddy bear”.
        On the whole, all these beliefs and practices help to make the world a wonderful and colorful place, but sometimes people agonize over too many details and worry themselves sick. I say to those people…..”calm down!….it’s your job to be imperfect, and it’s God’s job to forgive you”.
        Hmmm….I wonder if God’s name is ‘Teddy’.

    • outandabout says:

      Go easy with practical thoughts, Ted. You’ll get yourself smit by the smiter on smiting day.

    • The Heretic says:

      The actual history is fascinating, plus research on the development of the “Old Testament” — especially the first five books — is just as murky. Close examination reveals multiple writers and sources each pushing an agenda. The sect of laws and rituals, the sect for priests, sects for the scribes and prophets, and another sect for the emerging “divine royalty” each contributing to the mass of sacred text of the Old Testament. And, the rabbinical tradition emerging from Babylonian exile and diaspora.

      On those shaky foundations we then find the New Testament coming forth, but wait–we discover that Marcion is credited with being first to assemble an “offical Christian sacred text” (a canon) which rejected Matthew and John. This action forced The Church to create its own statement of what was “in” and “out”. This also meant that Gnostic Christian gospels and other diverse Christian sects with their own sacred texts would soon be “out”.

      So, in this game of denying the reality of death, and “let’s pretend,” it’s about finding the narrative you can hold onto with a degree of sanity and suspended reality.

      http://www.ntcanon.org/Marcion.shtml
      http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/info/marcion-layman.html

      • Ricardo says:

        @Heretic,
        I love your name. I wish I could add it to my name: Ricardo Heretic. Nice choice, man. Just waiting for Korah to turn up.

  10. Ted says:

    Hi outandabout, Thanks for your concern, but as I’ve
    already had my 3 score and 10 Plus 15 I might not make
    it to smiting day. They keep cancelling it don’t they!

  11. Ted says:

    Jennifer, a concise and accurate account of the
    development of the Yahweh cult.

  12. Jado says:

    I think it is time for Europe to feel once again the pain from Bible. Here in “the Dark Continent” we know the Bible more than elsewhere in the world: http://images.slideplayer.com/24/7429158/slides/slide_17.jpg ! Its myths has costed lives of our Brothers and Sisters beyond imagination.

    In one of JW Publication you can read:
    “an elderly Russian couple were associating with an Adventist group but were dissatisfied with what they were learning. They saw no evidence of the persecutions that were prophesied to mark true Christianity. Then one day they found an old, discarded Romanian-language news magazine that carried a report about violent mob attacks back in 1985 on the Society’s branch office building and the Kingdom Hall in Tel Aviv. With their interest stirred, they traveled to Tel Aviv and walked around for four hours until they located the building described in the newspaper article. They enjoyed receiving answers to some of their questions […]” (See w89 6/1 p. 24)!

    Imagine people looking for “persecutions … to mark true Christianity”.

  13. Jado says:

    Really! Persecutions were prophesied to mark true Christianity? (w89 6/1 p. 24)!

    Ironically, the same people say that “In some cases colored men, women and children were caught like animals and sold as slaves to other “Christian” nations.” (w64 5/1 p. 261)!

    Sadly, the same people are asking “colored men, women and children” to write letters of protest! It seems there is no boundaries when it comes to fighting for power. So do roosters: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YpdsmfVbXNU/maxresdefault.jpg !

  14. Claude Remayns says:

    I had to do more research on this–had to…

    First, context of Russia’s laws, like the USA it is a multi-cutural, multi-ethnic and diverse country emerging from an era of intolerance for diversity. While freedom of expression is appreciated in both USA and Russia, in both places, expression that endangers the welfare and unity does not go without consequence. The laws do not forbid certain meetings, but forbid mass distribution of literature with expressions that degrade or mock other groups or individuals, or elevate a group.

    This gets back to that familiar issue of black-white (polarized) thinking. Can Watchtower have a message that is positive and welcoming to all persons without a derision of others’ ideology? For example, it has a concept, can the concept be marketed positively without resorting to emphasizing the failings of other similar products? If their concept is so strong, it should stand on its own merits. Why this incessant need for confrontation?

    It also seems to indicate that Watchtower is oblivious to the context of hatred until it finds it profitable to insert the context into the literature for conversion gain and publication distribution boosts. It certainly seems callous in regard to hatred of homosexuals where its literature goes beyond moral condemnation when it singles out a set of “sinners” to be highlighted above and beyond other “sinners” like drinkers, gamblers, gluttons, prideful, arrogant, etc. Or, in speeches and videos goes to the extremes of ensuring women “know their place” and at every opportunity levels insults at the intellect and emotional capabilities of women.

    Russia has been on the “front seat” when observing words of hate morph into actions of hatred and violence. I am not surprised that the regime may be zealous on curtailing potential divisive ideas that could lead to acts of hatred in the future to Watchtower followers, as well.

  15. Doc Obvious says:

    Last weekend, I viewed “My thoughts on JW Broadcasting 23, with Ronald Curzan (tv.jw.org) – Cedars’ vlog no. 153”. I found it interesting.

    According to Ronald Curzan, the best imperfect company in the world is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. My first thought is that Ronald does not get out much. Personally I find quite a few imperfect companies that are better than the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

    Here’s a few imperfect companies I feel are absolutely better than Watchtower: McDonald’s, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, White Castle, and Aldi’s. All of these companies have a better compensation package, better benefits, and treat their customers very well. Their responsiveness to people’s needs is also extraordinary. When McDonald’s messes up my order, they fix the issue within a few minutes. However, it takes David Splane years to come to a decision.

    Hearing David explain the Governing Body’s decision making process, I feel that there is no sense of urgency in making decisions. In addition, the process that they are using is pretty slow and cumbersome. For 60 plus years, Watchtower had a serious problem with child sex abuse and made no decision. It took the Australian commission with a judge to put some pressure on them to make decisions. How sad.

    • Big B says:

      @ Doc Obvious:
      “It took the Australian commission with a judge to put some pressure on them to make decisions”.

      And what did those decisions entail? Have they made appropriate decisions to report pedophiles to the local authorities (police, child protective services, etc.) when they find out about them? Has the congregation been warned that their is a pedophile in their midst?

      I agree, it is sad but I don’t see any changes and worse still, I don’t see elders serving jail time or Watchtower being fined for pitiful follow through with what the ARC found out. The Watchtower has had plenty of time to comply with ARC recommendations (which were reasonable) but its obvious they have no intention of doing so.

      Obviously the ARC does not have the ‘testicular fortitude’ or the authority to act (fine or punish) on non-compliance and are thus given a five finger salute by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc.

  16. Doc Obvious says:

    Watchtower Babble and Tract Society has sunk to a new low. The religious company is telling its people to forgo their rights. The Bill of Rights is guaranteed for every citizen in the United States. It is a means of checks-and-balances.

    When Watchtower does questionable activities that hinge on being illegal, every American citizen has a right to talk with an attorney and pursue the issue in court.

    Watchtower thinks their rights are more important than your rights. Talk about having an ego.

    Personally this is so appalling that I have decided to file a complaint with the American Bar Association.

    Their address is:

    American Bar Association

    321 North Clark

    Chicago, IL 60654

    • SilasThompson says:

      10 Casualties Following Terrorist incident in Russia. Russian Security Forces are not looking for “Witnesses”

      • SilasThompson says:

        Forget the American Bar Association
        Why don’t you all just send your comments to :-
        Comedy Central
        Headquarters 345 Hudson Street New York City, New York

        Share the humour!!!
        You’re all jokers

        • Jado says:

          Russians are smart people. I hope they stand strong:
          http://beta.foreignassistance.gov/explore

          • Silas Thompson says:

            Hello Jado
            Obviously you’ve no trust in the Bible which says at Psalm 146 vs 3-5
            “Do not put your trust in princes
            Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.
            4 His spirit* goes out, he returns to the ground;
            On that very day his thoughts perish.
            5 Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob as his helper,
            Whose hope is in Jehovah his God,”

            As you probably are well aware, we have utmost respect for Putin and all other Rulers, but when it comes to Gods Laws we obey His Laws not mans.
            Yes Putin is strong, but Jehovah God is Almighty and All Powerful.

        • Ricardo says:

          @Silas,
          Let’s see how funny the situation gets tomorrow. D-day for our Russian brothers. I hope you wrote your letters.

      • Ricardo says:

        @Silas,
        What’s your point? I don’t think the Russian Security Forces will be looking for men in tight pants either. Nor for any Seventh Day Adventists. Nor Mormons.

        Are we supposed to take some deeper meaning from that post?

        • Silas Thompson says:

          Hi Ricardo
          Have you ever heard of irony?
          If so then work it out for yourself.

          • messenger says:

            Silas,

            It’s good to have you back. Every Christian’s voice here is a plus for God. Don’t let the folks here throw you off your game. Almost everyone here attacks whoever stands up for WT. It’s not personal.

            See you in the new world Silas.

            messenger

  17. Caroline says:

    messenger, I am waiting for your reply to my comment concerning 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1, where I asked you to compare those two scriptures with the New World Translation with the King James Bible where if you read those scriptures you will see that Jehovah is actually Satan according to the New World Translation.

    The Watchtower used to use the King James Bible in service when I was a kid but now all they want the rank and file to use is just the New World Translation and one of the reasons is that savy Witnesses will read those two scriptures in the King James and realize that it’s possible that they are worshipping Satan so the Watchtower came up with their own “version” of God, tricking you into thinking your God is not the god of the King James Bible.

    That account where Jehovah killed 19,000 Israelites because David took a census always bothered me. Did it ever bother you?

    Why does the New World Translation substitute the word “one” instead of “He” like the King James says?????

    Messenger do you really know who you are worshipping????

  18. Ted says:

    Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they. Matt, 6:26.

    Then why are children dying of starvation in S,Sudan, Somalia,
    Ethiopia and Kenya, due to drought and crop failure?

    • Silas Thompson says:

      Hi Ted,
      Who’s running the Governments in the lands you mention.
      Ah right, humans.
      Ah right, humans who accumulate nice offshore bank accounts where their retirement nest eggs avoid tax.
      Ah right humans, who spend billions on arms and warfare rather than on the economic benefit of their people.
      Need I say more?
      Go on to jw.org if you want more answers.

      • Shibboleth says:

        Ummm! Speaking about offshore bank accounts brings to mind the Barcelona Spain scandal of the 14 elders of a circuit that were sentenced, 9 going to prison, because of embezzlement charges in 2015.
        economiadigital/es has the original article which can be translated by Google if you care to see it in English

        • Shibboleth says:

          Correction, 6 of the 14 were being sentenced to prison and 1 of the elders escaped and was being hunted down.

        • Silas Thompson says:

          Yes Shibboleth
          Funny all this talk about Russia and Putins Government, they are the worst for planting undercover agents into congregations who are spying and committing other atrocities.
          These criminals like them and the Spanish lot and others are exactly the type of candidates who when they have served their time in prison and then remain unrepentant will then be warmly embraced by the apostates that typically frequent this website.

          The sign of the times we are living in as expressed at 2 Tim 3. :- points out that love of money would be a a critical element of the world we are living in today. Just one of the many indications that we are living at the end of a system of things

          At 2 Tim 3 it prophecies the following :-
          But know this, that in the last days+ critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power;+ and from these turn away. 6 From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

          Notice it says :-
          lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power;+ and from these turn away. 6 From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

          Jehovah God created Satan, Adam & Eve
          They were created perfect, and yet they rebelled against Jehovah.
          Jehovah created them perfect but he also gave them free will which they purposely and deliberately misused. Jehovah has tolerated this abysmal evil system that those rebels have caused now for over 6000 years. So Jehovah patiently lets things take its course. But Jehovah says in the Bible that he will not delay the end of this system. A date has been set and it will not change.
          If Satan, Adam and Eve rebelled even though they were created perfect, So then it’s hardly surprising that imperfect elders will succumb to Satans World.
          It has been prophesied.

          Remember too that Judas betrayed Christ. That was prophesied also.

          But what you fail to appreciate is that the Bible explains Jehovahs toleration of things is soon to come to an end.
          Just because certain elders or members of Jehovahs Witnesses commit wrongdoing does not mean Jehovah will delay the end of this system.
          Even members of the 144000 are replaceable if they commit wrongdoing
          Don’t worry Jehovah and Jesus have things well under control.

          And on that note I say farewell to you and wish you well.

      • Shibboleth says:

        170 million laundered through Swiss bank accounts if I recall…

        • Shibboleth says:

          Correction, 80 million was sent to offshore accounts with the help of lawyers and fake business fronts.

      • Shibboleth says:

        170 million laundered through Swiss bank accounts if I recall…

      • Shibboleth says:

        Now that’s what I call “fleecing the flock”

      • Jado says:

        @Silas Thompson,
        I have gone to jw.org and found this answers:

        According to Dr. J. H. Hertz, a rabbi: “This sublime pronouncement of absolute monotheism was a declaration of war against all polytheism . . . The Shema excludes the trinity of the Christian creed as a violation of the Unity of God.” ( http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012173?q=%22against+all+polytheism%22&p=par ).

        How many worship “the trinity” in your country? How about other Gods?

        The blind will perish as the ancient world perished in “Jehovah’s wars”!

        “Jehovah About to Resume His Military Activities” (See vw90 7/1 p. 25).

    • Jado says:

      But if you compare Ethiopia and Israel where Jesus (Son of God and Mary) lived before going back to heaven, you will find that there are areas where Ethiopia beats Israel: http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/world-health-review/rwanda-vs-israel

      Can you see that? Ethiopians have less Coronary Heart Disease, Prostate Cancer, Liver Cancer, Pancreas Cancer, Uterin Cancer, Skin Cancers… than Israel (“chosen people”).

      Each country is “chosen in its way”! You will find that even Sudan, Somalia and Kenya have areas where they beat the “holy land”. FACTS are FACTS!!!

  19. Caroline says:

    @Silas Thompson, you said:

    “As you probably are well aware, we have utmost respect for Putin and all other Rulers, but when it comes to Gods Laws we obey His Laws not mans.
    Yes Putin is strong, but Jehovah God is Almighty and All Powerful.”

    My questions Silas are: If Jehovah is stronger than Putin, why does Jehovah allow Putin to ban the Witnesses? Why do you need to send letters to Russia to help out the Witnesses? Why pray for Russia to help out the Witnesses? Does Russia listen to Jehovah’s prayers? Why does Jehovah need you to pray for those Russian brothers and sister?

    • Silas Thompson says:

      Hello Caroline,
      Again it’s pointless me answering your questions, because the answers are all in the Bible, and you have no trust in it.
      Read the account of Moses, the Israelites and Pharoah
      Read the account of Daniel, and Babylonian Ruler Belshazzar.
      That would be a good starting point for you to be able to answer your own questions rather than me wasting time doing so on a forum like this. In fact why not go on to JW.org and request a Bible Study

      • Caroline says:

        Silas, I was a Witness for 50 years (1964-2014) and I am very familiar with Watchtower teachings and also what the Bible says.

        My questions were to you. I already know the answers and if you can find the answers in the Bible, I’d like to know what they are.

        I don’t need a Bible study with Witnesses. I had many Bible studies over the years and it was me that conducted the studies, not the other way around.

        • Silas Thompson says:

          You say your experience extends to 50 years as a witness and also you have experience of conducting studies, then why is it that you ask me why Putin is allowed to ban Jehovahs Witnessss. Have you not experienced instances before where you have heard that governments have banned the Witnesses, BUT the bans have been to no avail. An example is China. The Witnesses in China are under van, but they carry on meeting and doing the preaching work undercover. I know this, I have relatives and friends over there. I have a daughter who has completed a Chinese language course organised by certain Congregations. Her husband did the course too and they are hoping to go soon. The work in China is not openly reported. Brothers and Sisters refer to each other by code names. The work in China is successful despite the ban.
          Whether there is a ban or not the 170000 odd Jehovahs Witnesses in Russia will remain active in the preaching work and Jehovah will see to it that they do. Can you imagine how the Witnesses in Russia are feeling when they read and hear about how their brothers and sisters throughout the World are inundating the Russian Government with literally millions of letters.
          How would you feel.?
          We are part of a Worldwide brotherhood and our prayers to Jehovah bring him joy. It’s all part of the communication he enjoys listening to and he uses us to accomplish his will on
          earth at this time.
          And on that note I must say farewell to you and I wish you well for the future.

          • Big B says:

            @ Silas Thompson;

            Such a shame, you leaving us like this. Was someone entering the room to see that you were on an apostate web site? Were you scared that whoever saw you might ‘rat you out’? Or are you afraid that this spiritual paradise dystopia that you’re in won’t stand scrutiny?

            Over 100 years of Watchtower lies and deception, once found out, must be pretty hard to take, huh? More memorial partakers than ever before, no funds, no increase in adherents, printing facilities closing, branch offices closing, U.N. involvement as a non-governmental authority for ten years, child molestation cases and fines world wide, pedophile protection through out the organization, and according to you Jehovah uses this dystopian group of silly morons to accomplish ‘his will on earth at this time.’

            What’s funny and incredibly sad is that you truly believe this. You sir have my pity. ‘There are none so blind as those that refuse to see’.

            Do some research for yourself and see just how uninformed you are. I believe I can say without hindrance that everyone visiting and commenting on this site was, at one time, just as convinced as you that what you now defend was the ‘truth’. We were ‘ignorant’ but with diligent research most of us left, most of us with over 50 years of association (myself 1958-2013).

            For me personally, to have stayed knowing what I now know is the “Truth about the Truth” would have been ‘stupid’. Which is quite a bit different than ‘ignorant’.

            Anytime that you want to do serious research please post here on this site. There are resources available Jehovah’s Witnesses belonging to the U.N. for example from the U.N. web site itself. Look it up, here it is!
            http://ask.un.org/faq/14501

            We are not rabid apostates, we don’t foam at the mouth or bite! We want to help you (anyone) if you want to be helped, that is.

          • outandabout says:

            Hi Silas….I think you’ll find the ban in Russia extends to a few other religions as well, not just WT. The WT have convinced Witnesses that the WT are important players on the world stage, shaping and influencing events from behind the scenes through their ‘rightness’ and thereby proving they are God’s chosen ones. They constantly bombard you with their rightness. If the state of the world is as bad as WT says, and people hate you so much, it would be unsafe to go door to door or preach on the street. They are not big boys on campus at all but, well, they may as well be as invisible as Jesus for all they influence, but when they do have a win, they trump it up to you people and you all buy it because that’s all you want to hear. You’re all obsessed and can’t see anything except what you’ve been told to see.
            The whole of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation from the top down behave in predictable textbook fashion. A typical religious cult through and through. Seventh Day Adventists, Scientology, etc….. pick up a book on cult behaviour and read all about them, and yet each and every one of them believe they alone have the truth. A tragic comedy.
            You believe we’re living in the last days. Fair enough, I can’t blame you, but go back in time and tell me when things were terrific. I think the best you could come up with is the latest post-war boom period of unprecedented advancement and prosperity, and that boom is over. Everything goes in cycles. We could be experiencing a blip, but we’re not descending into hell at all, we’re returning to normal and that return to normal is interpreted by hysterical people as ‘last days’. Watchtower tell you they ‘look at the bigger picture’ They don’t. Their picture of the world is no bigger than the dimensions of an Awake magazine held at arms length and so by extension, yours also. There have been perhaps thousands of ‘yep, yep, this is it, all the signs are here’, in the last two thousand years and that’s because the signs are always there. Everybody throughout history believed that their time was special. We all do it, but it’s only special to us because we’re alive at that time.
            You think the world is being overtaken by terrorism? I’ve just read that in the past decade, fewer than 100 Americans have been killed by jihadists, whereas more than 130,000 have died in gun violence. We form our opinions from what we hear and read, and what do you read and who do you listen to, Sila’s. Why do you ignore the findings of the Aust. Royal Commission which found WT have the absolute worst child protection policy out of all investigated institutions, and then believe WT when they go back and tell you they have the absolute best. They’re making a fool of you and then you thank them for it. Well, I suppose at least it’s only your own life you’re wasting but if you have children, please let them grow into adults and let them make their own choices.

          • Ricardo says:

            @Silas,
            You say the work in China is successful? Compared to what? Maybe compared to the work here in Australia where we actually went backwards last year.

            From the figures it can be seen that China would even less publishers than India (as noone knows the real figures for China, you cannot prove me wrong, cos that’s what the figures say). So, in the most populous country in the world, where Christianity has taken off like crazy, we have less than 40,000 publishers. How pathetic! No doubt a large part of the increase, if any, that there is, is due to the foreigners like your daughter and husband going there. The witnesses in China do not seem to be very fruitful, and it is hardly worth boasting about such a poor effort. Especially considering that the end of the system is already supposed to be here, and basically the whole nation of 1.3 billion will be wiped out.

          • Jado says:

            Brothers and Sisters? From dysfunctional families without real biological bonds, like Jesus who had no real father and Sisters, they unite bihind the wind they call spiritual paradise.

            This a sign of a failed world, instead.

  20. “Little Big Town” song….”.Happy People”….Freedom is Paradise! Jw.org… majority, are not that happy..only when helped by…Spiritz mostly….just ask them and spend a bit of time with…Truth does come out….

  21. Doc Obvious says:

    Watchtower has to stop imitating the National Enquirer with its tall tales and lousy journalism practices.

    Scientists do not appreciate being misquoted.

  22. Ted says:

    Silas, the resolve of JWs to to continue practicing their
    worship despite government opposition is commendable.
    But the same is also true of many other groups.

    Pentecostals, and Mormons are in both Russia and China
    does their resolve and prayers through Jesus not make
    God’s heart glad? From where are they getting their strength
    to continue faithful?

    If you’ll pardon me, I find it very self righteous for anyone
    to claim an exclusive relationship to God, as the WT org,
    does. But I understand the feeling myself, after 30 years
    of having that idea impounded into me. I realise now that
    it’s a key feature of cult programming.

    Silas please check out how many times the org, mentions
    the struggle of these other religions. Or indeed how much
    empathy the other groups show for JWs. The truth is they
    all have the same cult mentality of exclusivity. How Sad!
    how divisive, if there’s a God up there he must be
    weeping.

    • Silas Thompson says:

      Sorry all
      But I forgot to inform you all that we Witnesses here in the U.K. have been promised some excellent news on the completion shortly of the new mega bucks U.K. Branch office.
      I thought perhaps that would cheer you all up.
      Personally I think Jehovah will leave the New HQ at Warwick and other branch offices like the new one in the U.K. untouched during Armageddon in order for them to to be used as administrative centres in the New World.
      By the way have any of you booked or enjoyed a tour of Warwick yet. You don’t know how blessed you are to be living nearer to it than me, still the UK one is pretty awesome I suppose.
      Goodbye all

      • outandabout says:

        You sound like a fully indoctrinated North Korean, Silas. Serious.

        • outandabout says:

          and speaking of North Korea…..does WT exist there? North Korea is a nasty Dictatorship, right? I think you’ll find that WT, generally, can only exist in a Democracy where it’s allowed to suck people in and then subject them to their own little WT dictatorship where they can control and manipulate people and lie unblinkingly to their faces and have Witnesses say “thank you” for that.
          In a dictatorship, absolute power usually slides to the top and the subjects only role is to support their paranoid and deluded Leader.
          Thanks to constant compulsory indoctrination, North Koreans believe their Dear Leader gets around on a rainbow, never needs to go to the toilet and once had about nine holes in one in a round of golf.
          Witnesses believe their Dear Leaders are shaping world events for God, are more or less talking to God, have an invisible Jesus, are the unseated and unrecognized highest power on Earth and are World Leaders in waiting and view the rest of the worlds population as the living dead and can’t understand why they get mockery instead of respect for their hideously righteous dictatorship they wish would engulf the world.
          Interstingly, Kim Jong-un can’t understand why he get’s mockery and dis-respect either. I guess the world has no time for deluded and corrupted idiots.

          • Jado says:

            Since when has WT been a democracy. I thought it was a theocracy like in the time of Phineas.

            JW Bible says: (Numbers 25:7-9) . . .When Phinʹe·has the son of El·e·aʹzar the son of Aaron the priest saw it, he immediately rose up from the midst of the assembly and took a spear in his hand. 8 Then he went after the man of Israel into the tent and pierced both of them through, the man of Israel and the woman through her genital parts. At that the scourge on the Israelites was halted. 9 Those who died from the scourge amounted to 24,000. . .

            I think today’s JW regret being a theocracy operating in a democracy where the Elder’s manual is used instead of spears.

      • Caroline says:

        Silas Thompson, again I ask you why pray and why send letters if you are going to “win” anyway? It seems so pointless to me unless like you said the brothers and sisters like the idea that letters are being sent in their behalf.

        Jehovah does not depend on your letters or your prayers. He’s all powerful, remember?

        • outandabout says:

          Caroline, you’re asking a fully indoctrinated JW to join the dots? One of the reasons Witnesses think they’re not in a cult is because they’re not in a fenced community, but what they fail to realise is that there is a fence, it’s an invisible one and Watchtower has electrified that invisible fence using fear. Watchtower have instilled an array of bogeymen – Satan, apostates, demons, the media, the internet, in fact anyone and everything that doesn’t agree with Watchtowers enforced view is perceived as a potential death threat in the minds of Witnesses. Witnesses then use these fears to police their own thoughts and actions and thus keeping them inside the fence and inside the Cult. They’re terrified of the invisible fence. Clever and effective and a great tool for religious cults and they never fail to use it. We on the outside can see straight through the scam but the poor ‘sheeple’ (excuse the copyright infringement) on the inside are as blind as bats.

          • Caroline says:

            @outandabout, I forget how I thought too like that all those years I was in the “truth”. I keep up my hopes up though that something that we say might help somebody to “wake” up so they can salvage the rest of their lives and not waste the remaining life that they have in this world working for a publishing company that will use them up and spit them out when they no longer serve their purpose.

            I ran into one of the elders at the grocery store on Sunday and unloaded on him and as he was walking away I said to him “you are afraid to talk to me” and he said “no I am not”.

            It is so frustrating to have all this knowledge rolling around inside my head and it is so clear to me how they are all being lied to and cheated out of their lives and no matter what I try and tell them, they walk away thinking I am the crazy one.

            In the end, I am carrying on conversations with them in my mind only and talking to myself. I challenged him (the elder) to have the elders call me in and charge me with apostasy but I don’t think they actually will because I do believe they are afraid of me.

            I even told him that I would use nothing but the Bible so I wonder if they can disfellowship me for using nothing but the Bible? I am so curious if they can do that? I almost want them to do that so I can prove what an unchristian cult it really is to them and I will take my tape recorder with me so I have proof.

            Most people that I tell my story to, find it so incredible that I wonder if they think I am making it up and think I am crazy because most people think of JW’s as the nicest people in the world and they can’t imagine that I could be telling such a horrible story about them.

          • outandabout says:

            I understand what you’re saying, Caroline. It’s very hard to talk to a Witness about the injustice they willingly accept without them seeing it a a personal attack on them because a personal attack is what they are taught to expect.
            Any discussion (usually brief!) I manage with a Witness, I have to make a mental note to not sound negative about the followers, but the Governing Body, instead, which is where the problems stem. I try not to use the term ‘Jehovahs Witnesses’, instead it’s WT or GB. As you say, Witnesses are generally model citizens, in my experience anyway.

          • Gwen Little says:

            Outandabout,

            Reminds me of the movie “The Village”.

            Islas Thompson probably still believes Rutherfords “1260 days” prophecy. It takes a lot of mind bending & deluded thinking to marry the scriptures to the individuals in this religion.

          • messenger says:

            Nicely worded comment.

          • messenger says:

            @ Caroline,

            Yes Caroline the elders can disfellowship you for teaching any view that goes against a primary WT doctrine. A letter was sent to elders stating they might DF if becoming aware that a JW believes Bible doctrine in a way that refutes WT theology. Your using the Bible in a discussion with them would not matter. They would consider it the same as a Catholic attempting to convince them of the trinity. The Catholic could use the Bible, but the JW elder would not accept that interpretation.

            If you have the type of discussion you mentioned above with the elders, especially if more than one elder is present, then expect to get DFd, especially if you’ve been attending the hall recently. The elder you mentioned probably doesn’t want to get involved, because you’re not attending. If you have not been attending for years..my guess is they’ll leave you alone…unless they find out your commenting against WT or influencing other JWs against WT beliefs. If they find that out expect to be DFd.

        • Jado says:

          “He’s all powerful” Are sure? But “The sex drive is a most powerful force.” as JW themselves witness it in w64 3/1 p. 141 par. 13.

          “Sex” drives Jehovah mad and women in the Bible new it:

          (Ezekiel 16:26) . . .You prostituted yourself to the sons of Egypt, your lustful neighbors, and you offended me with your countless acts of prostitution. . .

          (Ezekiel 23:20) . . .She lusted after them like the concubines of men whose male members are like those of a donkey and whose genitals are like those of a horse. . .

          Upon that, Jehovah could take seriously a sword and kill mercilessly his people. Something funny is that this god, being a spirit, invisible, will always rely on humans as robots in carrying out his/her/its military activities.

          • Ricardo says:

            @Jado,
            I’m glad you are able to somehow slip your trademark subject into the discussion. Perhaps you could suggest that sending prostitutes to the Russian leadership would give better results than sending letters to them.

      • Ricardo says:

        @Silas,

        Are you talking about the new U.K Branch office in a country that had an increase of 26 publishers last year?

        Sounds like a successful organization!?! About as successful as we are in China.

      • Ricardo says:

        @Silas,
        I think you are very easily excited by quite unremarkable achievements.

        • outandabout says:

          Witnesses remind me of the audience in the Ellen Degenerate Show – they’ll laugh and clap and carry on at what they’re encouraged to, but, if the hype is removed, nothing exists.

      • Big B says:

        @ Silas;

        Did not bother to look at the information on line about U.N. involvement, I see.
        Truth about the Watchtower being part of the whore ‘Babylon the Great’ for ten years is a real eye opener, huh?

        Oh, here it is again, your research started for you! No thanks necessary, anything we can do to enlighten the be-darkened masses of ignorant ‘sheeple’ is well worth the effort.

        http://ask.un.org/faq/14501

        Oh, before I forget to ask, how is working without enumeration for the ‘Evil Slave’ working out for you? Any chance of retrieving those ‘treasures in heaven’ now before being whisked away in the ‘rapture’
        (chart in study article Watchtower July 15, 2013) or are you just a part of the ‘great crowd’ who will never get to those ‘treasures in heaven’? That is assuming that you live through Armageddon and it happens in your lifetime (see above referenced chart). Good luck with that, really.

  23. To bad all Wts in Russia did not have Caddys with… was it 16 cyclinder motors, like Rutherford…could make good get away cars…power like that. Were not the Gb trying to get into the more “profitable part” of Russia…bigger donations, to hide away in off shore accts…or to make more …”holy” drain covers? In Russia “family” is important…To find out how Jw.org breaks up families, may not be well taken.

  24. Agree with your comments Big B…only part I have to disagree with…the foaming at the mouth part! Man oh man….sometimes this Jw.orgy stuff makes me sooo mad…temp boils and foam almost appears! Steam from ears…etc.! Good comments Outandabout…and Caroline, you’re not the only one who feels they are going crazy, this kinda stuff goes on in my head all times to…hence, foaming at mouth! 😉 God does not dwell in man made temples….Glad the GB are fine examples of “being content with sustenance and covering”… They are no different than any of the other Religions who flaunt their riches to make it appear they have God’s blessing…While they dwell in their elaborate places…in other lands poor bros. meet under the trees! Fortunate to have a few branches on the roof and boards on stumps for seats. Fair? Was it fair how Rutherford lavished in his riches from fleecing the flock…while poor folk like my Granfather and Grandmother worked hard and gave of their needs…. Uh, April…spring….Aux. pioneer? Anyone still get guilt feelings til you give yourself a bung upside the head to remind yourself….YOU’RE FREE!!!!!! YIPEE!

  25. messenger says:

    In Silas’ behalf do we not all know, at least those of us baptized as JWs, that all who believe in WT’s application of the “faithful and discreet slave” parable will not denounce WT. How can they? Or, a more accurate question is, why should they? To do so is to denounce God for them. Not that they believe WT is God, but instead his representative.

    It’s true that many attacks against WT can be explained with logical explanations, by pointing to Bible examples of similar occurrences. “All have sinned and fall short of God’s glory.” Every Christian believes that. With that one argument Silas can dispute most attacks against WT.

    Despite whatever claim Silas makes, a softer approach, by fewer respondents might be a more effective way to have a discussion that has a beneficial effect.

    We all believe what we choose (free will). Silas is no more responsible for another sinner’s sins than we USA citizens that support a government that oppresses and kills people in other lands, or you European citizens, because your countries have oppressed people all over the world for centuries. If Silas is guilty and must leave WT shouldn’t you leave your repressive countries?

    And Silas does believe in God and Christ. Is his voice better here to read than the voices of the illuminati members that recently posted here, and openly announced they were brothers of darkness? Did anyone answer those posts? And if so, did you/they argue against that position?

    Many of you believe in God. Most people associate God with moral principles. Many of you don’t believe in God. While you may not support the illuminati, killing, and every other sort of wickedness, your choice is only for a world that perpetuates this immorality. Fat chance you even believe that’s not so. Surely you are not so blind to believe this world will change without supernatural intervention. Silas longs and lives for a more moral world and is giving his life proclaiming that.

    In answer to your disgust for the pronouncement of the Bible’s god, that he will kill his opposers, consider why he should let wicked conditions exists, and let people continue to live who claim they are against those conditions but side with a system that creates immorality, while rejecting God’s offers for a way out?

    Choose you own God. Silas has chosen his. I’m glad he has. He never claimed to worship WT.

    • Ricardo says:

      @Messenger,
      That is quite a compassionate well-argued post, Messenger.

      Somehow I suspect that Silas enjoys the furore which his comments ensue. I think he comes to this site to taunt rather than to share. Which is why he gets the reaction from so many, who have been damaged by taunts from Witnesses for so long.

      • messenger says:

        @Ricardo
        I disagree. Any real JW that comes to this site, argues in support of WT. Notice how Silas frequently refers readers to JW.Org. He might not be doing that for the reason that seems to be the most obvious reason. He could be directing readers who are not the commenters he’s directly addressing to where they can get WT’s side of the story.

        Silas’ arguments are quite thorough, and he is fairly knowledgeable of WT’s positions. Someone taunting is usually not as thorough as Silas. I believe he’s for real. At times he can be sarcastic, but what commenter on this site isn’t?

        Whenever a JW defends WT everyone and his brother here tries to enlighten them. I’ve had debates with Silas in the past, and most regular commenters have. I feel it would be better if not so many challenged his positions at the same time. How would any of us feel, if that happened to us here? One thing we can admire Silas for is that he’s survived that treatment more than once, and he was strong enough to return.

        There are very few people that I agree with on this site, and even those few I’m not sure about. Occasionally I get into debates against the absurdity of some of their comments. I do that because I represent Christ and God. If not for that I wouldn’t care what they believe. I think Silas comments for the same reason.

        But my treatment here is different than Silas’, probably because I speak against WT. He doesn’t and everyone jumps on him, which includes name calling.

        We’ll see, some JWs will live when eternal life is possible. Its a guarantee, I’ve seen it. Wise cracking individuals who base their futures only on the limited so called knowledge they can perceive will not keep living. I don’t have to have seen that, because that message is in the book from the one that showed me what I know will happen.

        Silas is really only saying choose your own God. He’s chosen his, and supporting his. Why would anybody attack him, or name call him for that?

        My opinion Ricardo is that ideas on this site are considerably more dangerous than WT’s ideas. I suggest not getting sucked in by them. Again I suggest read your Bible. The Truth is not TTATT. The truth is the Truth that pleases God, his way, his message. At least Silas attempts to spread that message, as best he understands it. Who has the right to blame him for that. The Bible’s God didn’t give us that right. No one understands everything about the Bible. Who says Silas doesn’t know enough to be God’s friend? Do you know that?

        best wishes buddy!

        • Ricardo says:

          @Messenger,
          I guess Silas uses good spelling and punctuation, which is not what we see from the usual Witness visitors.

          However, I cannot help but feel he is easily excited by achievements which are not noteworthy. Like the type the usual Witness makes, or the CO makes when he is visiting. Like, if God’s spirit is operating on the organization the way the Witnesses claim, there should be fantastic, unbelievable results, like we read in Acts. That Witnesses can get very excited over very mundane matters annoys the life out of me, and I tend to point that out to the Witnesses who try this tactic when they speak to me. They don’t like it, but then I don’t like the way they are so over excited, so we may as well make the dislike mutual.

          I can just see the smugness on Silas’s face as he says these silly over-excited things. It’s like talking to my brother, who also has his head in the cr#p, and who says the organization will grow from strength to strength.

          I can feel the frustration inside the readers who feel they must comment. So I have little compassion for Silas. I can’t see any benefit for him or us by his comments. You may feel you can make some connection with Silas. I think in this area we may need to disagree.

          Who knows? In five years time Silas might be joining us here with his comments, thanking you for giving him something to think about. I will be glad to be surprised in this way.

          • messenger says:

            Ricardo

            Ricardo different people have different reasons for commenting here. I only comment as a representative of Christ and his father. Maybe I can make some comments that help in their purposes progress. So, how smug someone is here, or their spelling and grammar doesn’t matter to me.

            In teaching others I’ve seen that a lot of people have very poor comprehension skills reading and understanding verbal presentations. Sometimes I get sarcastic with people who present illogical arguments, in an attempt to wake them up along with those who fall for their irrational arguments. I really couldn’t care less what their personality is.

            Salvation comes from having a personal relationship with Christ and God. The purpose of my comments were not to get Silas to leave WT and join the folks here. Silas is safer there. At least half this group doesn’t believe in God, most of the rest deny a relationship with Christ is necessary for salvation. According to Bible teachings those are the damned crowd,

            I have no hatred for WT or even against the jerk elders I’ve dealt with over the years.
            Watchtower helped teach me a lot of what I know about God and Christ. God chose me while I still believed in WT. Since God chose me then it makes sense he’s chosen others in that same place (WT). That’s proof to me that Silas is safer there than he would be here.

            In the next life I’ll attempt to look some of you guys up, to see who made it.

            Best wishes Ricardo!

          • Big B says:

            @ Ricardo et als;

            “In five years time Silas might be joining us here with his comments, thanking you for giving him something to think about. I will be glad to be surprised in this way”.

            Maybe, that’s right. It would be a pleasant surprise and I personally hope that comes to pass. However, as of now I will not waste anymore time with him. Not because I dislike him or feel ill will towards him. Quite frankly he is like I was, and so many of us were; blinded by the self-imposed ignorance and misinformation of this Adventist, Millerite throw-back currently masquerading itself as the WTBTS.

            He definitely will not address my question to him about U.N. involvement. Why? It was a fair question and respectfully poised. He doesn’t know about this nor do the majority of J.W.’s. It is because that knowledge will screw up his “feng shui” causing much cognitive dissonance on his part. It is much better to remain ignorant of the so called ‘truth’ and happy than live in a world without the crutch that Watchtower provides to get him and others through the day. Such Adventist nonsense as ‘Armageddon is a cummin’, ‘its just around the corner’. ‘Door to door in 74 to be alive in 75’! Forty-two years, parents and family (uncles and aunts) ‘in the truth’ all dead, I’m 65 and still no ‘Armageddon’ and no dancing panda ‘paradise earth’.

            Personally, after a half century of listening to the Watchtower and having my life controlled by this distopia I resent, in the strongest terms, someone coming here espousing this J.W. propaganda hoping that ‘maybe it will save some souls from God’s wrath.’

            Not willing to answer well thought out, respectful, pertinent questions but ignoring them to continue his illogical J.W. argumentation is not only ignorant but borders on boorishness. We know what Watchtower says and thinks; what does HE think? Surely, he has some thoughts of his own.

            If he truly is a Jehovah’s Witness and is not looking for what we have found out by diligent long hours of research then why the heck is he here? He shouldn’t be here at all, period. He is disobeying his masters at H.Q. The penalty for visiting this ‘apostate site’ and then commenting on this ‘apostate’ site is…what? A public reproof, or a disfellowshipping offence?

            That is unless he has doubts about the Watchtower, correct? Which all of us encourage, ask away! However, this is not the case, as I see it. Therefore for me, personally arguing or sharing information with him (which he has no intention of checking out) or giving him any satisfaction of answering him feeds into his delusional self-righteous Jehovah’s Witness attitude of : “I’m right and you’re wrong; especially if your Bible/world view differs from what I learned from my masters at WTBTS”.

            Friends, Jehovah’s Witnesses, et als, I encourage anyone with questions about the Watchtower and their practices to visit this site and comment. Express yourself with questions. We want to help you! We won’t discourage your questions or stymie you. “Better to have Questions that can’t be answered than have Answers that you can’t question”. But please don’t expect us (and I respectfully hope I speak for most of us) to just give up on our new found reality (freedom) and replace it with ‘your indoctrinated, biased reality’ based on servitude to a self appointed body of septuagenarians calling itself the ‘faithful and discreet slave’.

            We know how you have been taught and how you act out on what you’ve been taught and the arguments you use as ‘conversation stoppers’ and circular reasoning to stymie the free flow of ideas. After over 55 years; Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

            Agape love to all truth seekers;
            Peace.
            Big B

  26. Jado says:

    If you read carefully JW publications, you’ll understand what is happening now in the world. The following is referenced w55 5/1 p. 275 in Watchtower Library….

    Vacuum in Ideals?
    A thought-arousing item by Sydney J. Harris appeared in the Chicago Daily News of July 29, 1954, under the caption “Strictly Personal.” The writer asked the question: “Want to know what America believes?” Then he answered: “It believes that everybody should have as much education as possible—but that people who talk and act as if they were educated are suspicious intellectuals. It believes that Russia is a godless, materialistic state—but that it’s good for us to acquire as many material possessions as we can get our hands on. It believes that environment creates most criminals—but it spends billions to lock up criminals, and virtually nothing to change their environment. It believes that every man is entitled to his opinion—but that it doesn’t take any effort or knowledge or careful reasoning to distinguish an opinion from a mere prejudice. It believes that children should get pretty nearly everything they ask for—but that parents are to blame if their children become spoiled and willful from this indulgence. It believes that the caste system has no place in a democratic society—but that the size and price of the car you drive is a mark of your relative social position. It believes that you can’t fool all the people all the time—but that you have to respect the politicians and promoters who manage to do so most of the time.”

    Is that Jehovah’s word?

    • Ricardo says:

      @Jado,

      Did you just make a post with no reference to sex in it? What’s going on? Have you reached menopause? Or was it too many visits to jw.org and you have been spiritually cleansed?

  27. GEM says:

    It is all about PRAVDA and what you hold to be true.

    I still hold my former brothers and sisters dearly, because I really believed it was the TRUTH.

    More than ever, they need to “cuddle up”… the road ahead is going to be tough.

    Sigh

  28. Caroline says:

    Dallas Canada’s latest post is a compilation of Witnesses’ letters and early on, it shows a letter from a little girl where she’s saying that Putin is a good man. It reminds me so much of the 1934 yearbook where it quoted from the letter that the Society had sent to Hitler in 1933 where they praised Hitler’s form of government saying that the Watchtower and Hitler had the same goals and talked about how bad the Jews were in New York City.

    I have that yearbook and am hoping the elders actually call me in for an apostasy trial because I know they wouldn’t believe the Society ever did that unless they could see it for themselves in that yearbook.

    I tried selling that yearbook on Ebay about a year ago and I showed the pages and they pulled the ad and said it was now allowed because it was so awful but the Society is actually proud of letters praising Putin who is a dictator who will kill anybody who gets in his way.

    It’s shameful to lower themselves by praising a killer to help their brothers and sisters instead of relying on their prayers to Jehovah to get rid of Putin since Jehovah is so much more powerful than Putin is.

    To me, it’s like groveling around in the mud to do something like that.

    • Big B says:

      @ Caroline;

      Hey friend;

      I noticed your previous post where you said, “It is so frustrating to have all this knowledge rolling around inside my head and it is so clear to me how they are all being lied to and cheated out of their lives and no matter what I try and tell them, they walk away thinking I am the crazy one.
      In the end, I am carrying on conversations with them in my mind only and talking to myself. I challenged him (the elder) to have the elders call me in and charge me with apostasy but I don’t think they actually will because I do believe they are afraid of me”.

      Caroline, you are driving your own self crazy. Why? You feel obligated to talk to individuals so deeply involved in their cult, like we all were, that they can’t think straight and will never see straight no matter what you say or show them.

      What caused you to ‘leave’ this dystopia? Don’t you realize that what caused you to leave after 50 years, they (sheeple) must experience first hand before they start to wake up and pull their heads out of their derrières ?

      To try to reason with these indoctrinated, cult driven, morons is insanity; and what is ‘insanity’ but doing the same thing over and over and over again expecting a different result.

      They (sheeple) don’t want to know TTATT (the Truth about the Truth). They don’t want to discuss what you found out and they won’t except it; period. End of story!

      I felt the same as you, wanting to shake them out of their comfort zone but realize that they are (sheeple) are truly a lost cause. So let them waste their lives dreaming those ‘dancing panda’ dreams. Eventually, at deaths door they will finally come to realize they were duped, totally mislead, dying disappointed, discouraged, and disgruntled their whole lives wasted on a man-made fairy tale.

      My advice to you and all who feel like imposing your new found truth on others is this: “don’t cast your pearls (your research) on swine”. Matt. 7:6 Stubborn, stupid pigs don’t recognize the value of your research and will trample it into the mud.

      Now, the longer you dwell on this the longer the Watchtower has a hold on you and you will never break free; you’re just giving them more and more of your limited time thinking about them and others they are duping. Caroline isn’t 50 years enough already. My wife of 30 years tells me this all the time, “Build a bridge and get over it.” Wise counsel, that. Must be why I married her in the first place.

      Yes, to be sure, grieve your time wasted in this cult but move on; smile a lot, take art classes, bird watching, astronomy, travel, sports, etc. make new friends, avoid the J.W.’s at all costs. They are nobody to you, shun them as the world does namely as a bunch of cultists lepers. Just be content that you’re out because that is the most important thing of all and to blazes with the rest of them! Enjoy your life to the full and have a great day! There is life after the Watchtower; I can assure you!

      Big B 🙂
      (a 56 year victim of cult indoctrination)

      • Shibboleth says:

        I agree with you Big B. You just have to let them do it their way and in their time frame. A person usually has to have had something happen to them or someone they know, to get the courage to investigate Jehovah’s witnesses. I know that’s what caused me to get on Internet sites. First site I went on was Silent Lambs, and from there the info came flooding in. Until I was impacted personally from unscrupulous practices by the org, I NEVER would have investigated the religion or listened to anyone who had a bad thing to say about the JWs. I never asked a question about them or their beliefs since I was raised in the org and trusted what I was told. And I know I never would have listened to someone who acted angry or resentful or fanatical, ranting and raving. That completely shuts me off to listening to whatever they have to say. Websites such as this one and JW Facts that state the facts that can be referenced are crucial to waking up, not screaming, exasperated, frustrated people who are trying desperately to wake ones up. I mean, how would you want to be woke up from a deep sleep? With a violent push and shove and screaming or with a slight shake on the shoulder? I know the first way would really tick me off and I would not be in a good mood if awakened in such a way. Food for thought. That’s just my opinion for today.
        Shalom

        • Ricardo says:

          @Shibboleth,
          I think you are right that we tend to come to our senses when some injustice happens to us in the org. All those prayers the elders said, but still the elders went ahead and did the wrong thing. The bubble bursts, the curtain parts. What involvement is the holy spirit actually having? What proof is there of holy spirit helping the elders? Then we begin to question the proof that the GB is being led by holy spirit. Then someone says that perhaps the illustration of the faithful and discreet slave has nothing to do with the GB (shock, horror). Then we find a website like this and we are relieved we are not going mental.

          Then we start reading the comments and find we are just like Caroline. Just as 50 years ago when we found the truth we wanted everyone to know, so too now that we have found out the truth about the truth we want everybody to know.

          Thank you, Caroline, for helping us to see that we are not the only ones with this strong urge to tell others. Unfortunately, there is nowhere organizationally we can go to complain or question about what we have found out. The elders quickly shut down any discussion. I haven’t tried it yet, but am in the process, of saying I am having doubts and asking for their assistance. The elders must try to help me, and I will enjoy seeing their reaction to the things I bring up about the Royal Commission and UN involvement.

          Thankfully there are sites such as these where we can enjoy the company of those who have been through similar experiences to ourselves.

          • messenger says:

            @Ricardo,
            Show me an elder that doesn’t cherish his position, and you may have found one that if telling you have doubts about WT teachings will confirm those in any way. When that sort of conversation arises their (elders) jobs from WT is to watch you for apostasy, or worse, mark you or DF you.

          • Ricardo says:

            @Messenger,
            No doubt they will be thinking about disfellowshipping, if not watching very closely. But at least I get to see them squirm first.

            And they have to find grounds. I believe that when they have a brother who is active, they will try to encouage rather than exterminate.

      • outandabout says:

        I think that’s sound advice to Caroline, Big B, and I’m sure she’ll get there. She’s on a journey and probably like most people, needs to vent her spleen on the subject. I think her comments and particular style on here are useful and the same goes for your no-nonsense observations as well. I like your wit. You’ve had enough, aye – to hell with the niceties, this is how it is! Keep telling us how it is. You’re spot on.

      • Shibboleth says:

        Oh Big B,
        I think a more positive twist on your closing above: SURVIVOR of 56 years of Watchtower cult indoctrination, not victim. Don’t let them get the upper hand.

        • Big B says:

          @ Shibboleth et als;

          Thanks for the encouraging words everyone and you’re right ‘Survivor’ is a much better word than victim.

          Agape Love and Peace to all

          Big B

          • Caroline says:

            Hi all for trying to help me figure it all out. I so much wished I could just move on but it’s so hard for me.

            My husband died last year and all my kids have moved away. The closest daughter I have is 45 miles away and I stick around here for her because she’s single and going to be 40 this fall.

            When my husband was alive, every time her car broke down or she had any problems, we’d always be there for her and even though she’s a regular pioneer and working full time, I still feel like I need to stick around for her.

            If the elders disfellowship me for apostasy and I couldn’t talk to her anymore or help her out when she needs help etc. I’d move to where my family is which is about 120 miles away.

            There’s only one “sister” who stops by to visit with me but I don’t dare talk about the Bible or the Society, but otherwise the elders gave a marking talk on me 3 years ago when I stopped going to meetings when I unloaded on them why I hate the Governing Body etc. and so I really hate those elders for doing that to me and the congregation not coming to my rescue and just assuming the worst.

            There were some who wanted to know why I stopped going but of course I couldn’t tell anybody and so all the things I wished I could tell them and can’t is all in my own head with me wishing I could to explain it to them but don’t dare because I know they’d go off the deep end. (I know it’s a lost cause, but it still doesn’t leave my brain.)

            I want the elders to call me in instead of just assuming I am crazy.

            I think they (elders) know that I am helping my daughter out monitarily so she can pioneer. My husband and I always provided her with a car etc. and if I move away because of being disfellowshipped, I think it would about kill her. It’s just such a horrible position to be in.

            I am taking a class at the college where seniors can monitor a class for only $10 and it has helped me break out of my comfort space and luckily I have always been a person who doesn’t need a lot of friends but I do have my times where I feel so alone and depressed and I’d give anything to have somebody that understands what I have been going through once I woke up.

            I have always been a person who didn’t just believe everything just because the Society said it. I think back and I didn’t agree with an awful lot of stuff right from the get go and I was never afraid to say that I didn’t agree with the Society on those things and I think that is what made it easier for me to walk away from it once I realized I was being scammed and I am not one to go to meetings to have “friends”.

            I won’t lower myself that way and I value myself too much to play that game. I’d rather be alone than to have that kind of friends and fortunately I am mostly fine being alone most of the time.

            I do have 4 cats and that helps.

            Thanks everyone for your encouragement though. I do feel like I have friends here even though I might not be able to have coffee and a sweet roll with you all.

          • Ricardo says:

            @Caroline,

            You just described so many of us. That’s what makes this site so special, there are so many like you and me and us. We feel your pain, we understand your pain, we have exactly the same pain. All of us have been damaged by this organization. Some of us, like silly fools, still continue to go, waiting for the next ridiculous own goal and waiting for an avenue of escape.

            You have escaped. Jump in the air, throw your arms up and yell “Freedom is my paradise!” There are others of us still on the road you are on, just further back. We want to be you. We are in a confused state, trying to work things out, just like you. We know the truth about the truth, just like you. We wish others could see it, but let’s be glad we can see it. We don’t fit in any more with the nodding automotons at the Kingdom Hall, so even if someone there came to visit you, I doubt you will enjoy it.

            I hope you can find other enlightened ones to group with. But be assured you have compassion and fellow feeling from your fellow sufferers here.

      • Jennifer says:

        Dear Big B,

        I enjoyed reading your advice to Caroline. I am in
        the process of applying it to my own life.
        Rather than cast her ‘pearls before swine’, I hope
        Caroline saves her eloquence for this site, I have
        already learned much from her posts.
        I’m currently reading Don Cameron’s ‘Captives of a
        Concept’. I suppose most people who post here
        have read it, however it is new to me. An interesting point from his book is, when dealing
        with those who ARE ready to face the truth, one
        word may make all the difference. But if they are
        NOT ready to face the truth, then ten thousand
        words won’t make any difference.
        He also says it does not matter what you show
        witnesses from the bible, it is only the organization’s version that they will accept.
        My sister was trying to explain the Aust. Royal
        Commission to our elderly parents.My mother put
        her hands over her ears and screamed I will not
        listen to your filthy lies.
        It is true, witnesses will not acknowlege anything
        without the organization’s seal of approval.
        Anyway thanks for your advice, I have a half
        finished bridge waiting.
        Regards
        Jennifer, a 60 year recipient of cult indoctrination.

        • Shibboleth says:

          Jennifer,
          There’s a saying that is so appropriate for what you bring out about one being ready to hear truth…
          “when the student is ready, the teacher appears”. And that is so true!

          • Big B says:

            @ Shibboleth;

            “when the student is ready, the teacher appears”.

            Wonderful and insightful! I must remember this because its so relevant to what we are all about. Namely: encouraging more research, strengthening one another and helping those who are truly seeking help to find TTATT.

            Enjoy your comments.

            Big B

        • Big B says:

          @ Jennifer;

          At least the ‘bridge’ is under construction. Like all construction, your bridge is built on the firm foundation of knowing facts (TTATT). Whereas the poor ‘sheeple’ have their construction and ‘faith’ built on the ‘shifting sands’ of the ever-changing doctrinal NEW LIGHT. What’s truth today will not be truth tomorrow! So keep up ‘sheeple’, with the new and improved ‘truth’ because you never know when it will change and be discontinued for something more ridiculous.

          Your observations are spot on. No amount of testimony, research or Bible scripture reading will convince those who ‘refuse to see’. “it does not matter what you show witnesses from the bible, it is only the organization’s version that they will accept”. To be sure, any news must be cleared by the Watchtower seal of approval. Thus the killing off of the U.N. involvement (old news); death by silence.

    • messenger says:

      @Caroline

      Sorry your husband died. Reading and commenting on this site it’s easy to get worked up about WT. If I were you I would not share any of this info with your JW friends and acquaintances. Their lives won’t change. And you would run the risk of getting DFd and separated from your daughter.

      • Caroline says:

        @messenger, I do keep my mouth shut but when the elder (at the store) reminded me about the Memorial coming up I couldn’t resist saying to him “some people would consider that a black mass you know” and that is what got me started.

        It was his smug “I feel so sorry for you poor crazy old woman” look on his face is what made me do it. I challenged him to call me in for apostasy, hoping they actually will but all they want to do is ignore me.

        That attitude of ignoring me might work for my benefit. I do tell everybody I know (outside the Kingdom Hall) what a terrible religion it is and why. I have probably told at least 25 to 35 people so far. But when it comes to telling anybody at the Hall, I know I can’t tell them because I know it would make them go off the deep end. Their whole life would be destroyed and I know it and I keep that in mind and I won’t do that any more. I learned the hard way.

        That is what I tried to do with my kids and husband when I was waking up and it made them go even deeper into the religion. It worked against what I was trying to accomplish.

        • Big B says:

          @ Caroline;

          My deepest condolences for the loss of your husband. I can’t imagine the loss of my mate as we have been joined at the hip, so to speak, for 30 years this coming April 11. We manage to finish each others sentences.

          I am glad that you are taking classes and in finding new and exciting interests you will find new friends with like interests to relate to.

          But be careful with whom you speak to. Former J.W. ‘friends’ may rat you out (snitch) to the elders and you don’t need that kind of grief.

          Good Luck and keep smiling (it takes less muscles to smile than to frown).

          Big B

          • Caroline says:

            Thank you Big B for your condolences. It’s been a rough year so I really appreciate your thoughts. We were coming on 49 years of marriage.

            I know I should be careful who I talk to but I am careful not to talk to other Witnesses but all the people I do talk to, I am hoping they don’t rat me out. If they do, then they do but what that congregation did to me to me was so inexcusable that I feel absolutely no loyalty to them at all.

            You really don’t know what that religion is like until you decide to question it. Then you find out and in a way I am glad I finally found out even if it’s late in life.

            I live for the day when that religion is exposed for what it really is and all the cards fall.

            I may not live long enough to see that day but that is what I live for. I want it to happen before I die so my kids can see that I am not crazy after all and they apologize for having thought that I was the crazy one.

            Right now all I can do is take solace in the fact that all those times when I felt out of the loop because I wasn’t one of the elder’s wives or a pioneer and I wasn’t called on at meetings because of those reasons, that it’s those still trapped in it that I pity.

            They are indeed having their “rewards” now but those “rewards” are fake. They aren’t for real.

          • Big B says:

            @ Caroline (and her comments below):

            I too hope for the day the house of cards falls down but I don’t know if I will live to see it.

            Getting out myself and my family leaving with me was a blessing in itself. My older children, from my first marriage, never bought into the delusion although I took them to the Hall and assemblies. So I’m thankful for that.

            You know, if one really looks at the timeline provided in the July 15, 2013 Watchtower, which was not discussed in the lesson, I cannot believe that the end will come in my lifetime. To much has to happen before the end comes, including the removal of the remnant from earth to heavenly glory (which I call jokingly ‘the rapture’).

            However, this begs the question, “If the end (great tribulation) is 100 years or more off in the future (hypothetically speaking) what is the point of the door to door evangelizing?” The ‘great crowd’ of survivors cannot be alive now or born as yet. It’s not time for the dividing sheep from the goats, according to that above mentioned Watchtower. So other than finding their ‘replacements’ what is the point of the door to door work?

            Is it finding, as Ricardo sarcastically mentioned, (to funny 🙂 )further members of the anointed little flock that keeps growing yearly?

            Whatever it is or isn’t the Jehovah’s Witnesses are selling and nobody is buying!

            Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, “Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, I’m free at last!”

  29. Jado says:

    They say “The Good News of the Kingdom” would be preached in the World. Here is a piece of good news they are preaching:

    “Remember the wars and genocides our generation has seen. And what about the vicious crimes headlined in our newspapers—the mass murders, the rapes, the serial killings, the sexual abuse of children, to name just a few? Could anyone but Satan be the god of this world?” (See w92 12/1 p. 32).

    • Ricardo says:

      @Jado,
      I always enjoy your comments. This one has a bit of the irony Silas was talking about: good news which is all bad news.

      What is happening with you though? You seem to be a different, more thoughtful, more pensive Jado. Is something going on? Anything you’d want to share?

  30. Silas Thompson says:

    Other important events are taking place as well as the Russian Supreme Court issue.?

    President Trump, today says ;
    “Tonight I call on all civilised nations in seeking to end the slaughter and bloodshed in Syria and also to end terrorism of all kinds and all types. 
    We ask for God’s wisdom as we face the challenge of our very troubled world. We pray for the lives of the wounded and the souls of those who have passed. 
    And we hope that as long as America stands for justice, peace and harmony will prevail. Good night and God bless America and the entire world”

    According to Bible prophecy when the nations of this system feel confident they will proclaim Peace and Security, but it will be just a veneer. 1 Thessalonians 5 vs 3 states “Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape

    This “suddenness” will be according to the Bible prophecy concerning the beast that the harlot rides pictures the world’s political powers.* (Revelation 17:10-13) False religion straddles the back of this political beast, attempting to influence its decisions and to control its direction.
    Soon, though, an amazing event will take place. “The ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.” (Revelation 17:16) In a sudden, shocking move, the world’s political powers will turn on false religion and completely destroy her! What will prompt this action?

    The Bible book of Revelation answers: “God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought.” (Revelation 17:17) Yes, God will call false religion to account for all the despicable acts she has committed in his name. In a stroke of perfect justice, he will use her political paramours as his instrument of execution.

    I urge you to take note of President Trump’s speech above, it’s a continuation of a series of prophesied events leading the USA and Britain ( Anglo American World Power) to give more and more teeth and power to the Worlds Political powers under the “umbrella” of the UN, who will soon act for Jehovah God.

    • Ricardo says:

      @Silas,
      I have said it before, I think you get very excited by very unremarkable events.

      I have heard such things said by the Witnesses around me all my life, as have my parents before me. As have all Witnesses for the past 100 years of Christ’s rule. As Witnesses continue to get excited about.

      When you see the preaching work being done in any substantial way to the half of the world’s population who haven’t even heard it once yet, such as the people in India, China, the Middle East, even North Korea, please get excited and tell us.

      When you see the UN being reformed to stop it slipping into irrelevance in the modern world, get excited. Tell us about it.

      Sorry, Messenger, I had to say that. Surely there are real things to get excited about which are more substantial than a comment by Trump.

    • Ricardo says:

      Who knew, but Silas posted this comment twice; once here and then again on Covert’s page about why the ban is bad news, the next subject to this.

      Maybe it’s your chance to talk to him, Messenger, show us how to do it.

      • Silas Thompson says:

        Hi Ricardo,
        As a matter of interest Why do you need “Messenger” to show you how to draw your own conclusions.?

        • Ricardo says:

          @Silas,
          It’s not that I need Messenger to draw my conclusions. It’s that Messenger and I are of different opinions as to what your intentions are.

          I think you come here to comment to see the reaction from others. I can quite understand why the people here react to your comments. I am sure while you are typing them you have a smirk on your face. You enjoy seeing these people riled up.

          Messenger, on the other hand, thinks we shouldn’t all jump in and criticise you, but rather compassionately talk with fellow feeling, trying to understand your thinking.

          So I was inviting Messenger to talk compassionately to you. He’ll be along a bit later. He says he has had very pleasant conversations with you in the past.

    • Big B says:

      @ Silas;

      “1 Thessalonians 5 vs 3 states “Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.”

      This can be said to have happened already with the announcement of “peace and security” by Arthur Neville Chamberlain a British Conservative politician who served as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from May 1937 to May 1940. Chamberlain issued his ‘peace for our time’ statement at 10 Downing Street after his signing of the Munich Agreement in 1938, conceding the German-speaking Sudetenland region of Czechoslovakia to Germany.

      “My good friends, this is the second time there has come back from Germany to Downing Street peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Now I recommend you go home, and sleep quietly in your beds”.

      Unfortunately, hope for ‘peace for our time’ (peace and security) was dashed when Germany invaded Poland in the early morning of 1 September 1939. Could that be the fulfillment of “then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them”. Sounds like a good candidate for prophetic scriptural fulfillment to me.

      “I urge you to take note of President Trump’s speech above, it’s a continuation of a series of prophesied events leading the USA and Britain ( Anglo American World Power) to give more and more teeth and power to the Worlds Political powers under the “umbrella” of the UN, who will soon act for Jehovah God”.

      “False religion straddles the back of this political beast, attempting to influence its decisions and to control its direction”.

      Question for you, again (maybe with three times asking you is the charm); namely, what are your thoughts about Jehovah’s Witnesses belonging to the U.N. as a NGO for ten years ? And even better questions; is Jehovah punishing the WTBTS for its participation in the U.N.? Doesn’t that make the WTBTS a part of the whore of Babylon the Great? Will the WTBTS be destroyed along with the rest of so called ‘false religion’?

      Again Silas from the U.N. web site itself. Look it up, here it is!
      http://ask.un.org/faq/14501

      I believe that you, like I once did until my enlightenment, are grabbing at any straws (unremarkable news) to justify this rogue adventism religious belief by fitting any square peg into any round hole. No wonder the WTBTS has continued to print and then discontinue literature based on Revelation. Shall we name their past en-devours? Ask yourself this, honestly. Are any of the wonderful, insightful, holy spirit inspired publications being assimilated at this time? How about the original ‘Finished Mystery’; or ‘Babylon the Great has Fallen’; or ‘Then is Finished the Mystery of God’; or how about that latest irrelevant publication to be discontinued ‘Revelation- Its Grand Climax is at Hand’? No, I wonder why, don’t you? Is it because those publications, like Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves and their so called ‘interpretations of sacred scripture’, have proven to be absolutely irrelevant?

      I wait for your reply with bated breath but most likely I will probably be ignored by you once again.

      Big B

  31. Silas Thompson says:

    Ah Ricardo, Hello,
    Leaving aside the Bible and Jehovahs Witnesses are you saying that Your knowledge of the past 100 Years leads you to believe that nothing remarkable has happened during this time?

    • Ricardo says:

      @Silas,
      How I long for the 1950’s and 1960’s, when we had direction and seemed to know what was going to happen. We knew why we were preaching: the separation of the sheep and goats had to be done, and that depended on our preaching, so our preaching saved lives! And it had to be done urgently, because the generation (40 years, or then 80 years) was coming to an end and the good news had to be preached worldwide. And the anointed talked with experience and were brave and one-eyed for the kingdom. And people, lots and lots of people, were rushing into our organization. Like we were told, all the good people would be coming in, leaving two groups at the end: the Witnesses and the non-Witnesses.

      Now, where are we? Where is our direction? Instead of people rushing in, people are rushing out (ok, where you are in the UK a whole 26 people rushed in overall last year). We are on the cusp of an era: the overall worldwide increase is about to become an overall worldwide decrease. There are no new ones coming into our congregations anymore. The child abuse and bullying in our congregations is not attracting anyone (surprise, surprise). And many of our more effective and loving members are leaving in disgust.

      Areas which need to hear the good news, such as in Asia (like China which is waiting for your daughter) are unlikely to hear it from us Witnesses. Consider one of the major centres in China: Shanghai. This huge city has hardly been touched by the Witnesses, let alone the smaller villages in China. As more and more Witnesses leave the congregations of the Western world, there is little chance any meaningful preaching work will be done in the huge lands of China and India (it’s going to need more than the sporadic efforts of window cleaners).

      Now,the sheep and the goats are not separated until the great tribulation, so the urgency has gone from our preaching work, which is no longer so necessary. And the brothers are responding accordingly, with hardly anyone preaching on a Sunday anymore. The urgency has gone from the time needed to have this preaching work done, as we now have an overlapping generation which will run out some time in the next 60 years. Leaving us with anointed ones in their early 30s who don’t have the experience, one-eyedness or where-with-itness of their forebears.

      The UN, which was supposed to take over as power from the U.S. is irrelevant to our modern world.

      And looking at the calibre of our Governing Body members we see Geoffrey Jackson who made a pitiful appearance at the Australian Royal Commission, and Steven Lett who thinks he is a clown.

      And you get excited at Trump! How about, the next time the number getting baptized at your circuit assembly is into double figures, you get excited.

      So, has anything remarkable happened in the past 100 years? The transformation within our organization, to being so directionless, is certainly observable.

      • Silas Thompson says:

        Ricardo,
        Why are you avoiding my question?
        I asked, leaving aside the Bible and Jehovahs Witnesses Are you saying that nothing remarkable has happened during the past 100 years?

        • Ricardo says:

          @Silas,
          Sorry, I only just saw that. Yes, you did say beside the Bible and Jehovah’s Witnesses.

          Let me see. World War I and II. Nuclear bombs. AIDS. A breakdown in respect for the Bible in Europe and related countries. (sorry, that’s the Bible). Man reaching the moon. The worldwide web.

          That’s a few.

          I don’t believe my comments were saying that nothing remarkable had taken place in the past 100 years. But getting excited at something Trump says? We Witnesses have cried Wolf! again and again and again and again. Since my teenage years. I am so tired of unremarkable things being treated as something worth noticing.

          It’s like my son saying to me, “Watch this!” while he goes to kick the football and misses. Why do I want to see him miss the football?

          When things get noteworthy, like we are told to expect: the UN becoming powerful (it needs to be reformed first) and replacing the U.S as the main power, thus giving rise to the cry of peace and security (if the present UN cried out “Peace and security” everyone would laugh).

          What else do we expect? The preaching work being done worldwide to a meaningful extent. Which it isn’t in the two most populous countries in the world.

          We have been told again and again and again how the worldwide growth shows we have Jehovah’s blessing and approval. Well, if it wasn’t for a fudging of the figures we would hardly have had an increase this year, and we most probably will be having a decrease within three years.

          And if the amount of child abuse cases continues we may well be bankrupt.

          Things are not happening as we expected.

  32. Silas Thompson says:

    Ricardo,
    Still leaving aside the Bible etc etc
    Do you see US & Britain ever becoming enemy nations?
    Where do you believe TRUE peace and security is going to come from?
    I’ve explained my belief and hope for the future, what’s your hope?
    I’m only only on this site due to being temporarily incapacitated.
    Don’t worry I’m not counting this as ministry time

    • Ricardo says:

      @Silas,
      Messenger will be proud of me.

      What amazing questions? I have never been asked questions like this, let alone have to think about them.

      At the moment I am really confused about what is going to happen, and my 20 years in Asia hasn’t helped. Let me try to explain.

      The US and Britain will always be friends, because they share the same basic principles of freedoms and democracy. However, at some time, when the money runs out, the US and Britain will lose power. We can see this starting to happen with the rise of China, which is basically financing the US. And the importance which the Asian countries put on education must in the end give results compared to the lack of importance paid to it by the Western world.

      Sometime, I doubt that it will be soon or even in my lifetime, the US will lose most of its power, creating a vaccuum which China and Islam will like to fill. However, because noone wants China or Islam to be in control, the nations will demand the UN be fixed and restored. With this, the UN becomes powerful.

      How the preaching work gets done is a mystery to me, because it just isn’t happening or even look like happening in a meaningful way at the moment. And there are so many places and people in Asia (as just one example) who haven’t even been touched yet.

      But I have no doubt that Jehovah in his wisdom will ensure no righteous ones will be destroyed, and that his kingdom through Christ Jesus will fix things up here on the earth.

      (I am on this site because I can learn so much about our organization which I can’t learn from our organization, and to keep my sanity due to the oppression I find within our congregations. Here I can see I am not the only victim)

      I’m not concerned about whether you count time or not. I am more concerned with living as a Christian than living as a Witness, and I haven’t found many scriptures that give details about counting time.

      Why are you incapacitated? Have you been to hospital?

      • Winston Smith says:

        Ricardo,

        I particularly liked your second to last paragraph above. Living as a Christian versus living as a Witness. Not really synonymous are they?

        WS

        • Ricardo says:

          @WS,
          At the meetings I am always differentiating between information that helps us be better Christians compared to that to help us be better witnesses. At times I see the point totally missed. A topic, say about modesty, totally discussing how we can show this in the congregation, while missing totally how we can do this with our personality, better displaying Godly qualities. It is quite amazing how much discussion and attention is given to becoming better witnesses. Where is the discussion about showing love, compassion and fellow feeling? Where ever is the elephant in the room dealt with: the feeling of superiority which the elders show toward the flock? This is not a Christian way of doing things. Jesus washed others feet to set a pattern of humility. Why is this treated as nonsense by the witnesses?

          True Christianity has to be more than knowing the truth. It has to be living the truth, displaying the qualities, being like Christ. I can’t see this in the congregations. My father used to say that to be a witness, a person needs the hide of a hippo, i.e. a thick skin, because of the criticism from other witnesses. Is this love? Is this Christianity? Why have witnesses forgotten how to be Christians?

          • Winston Smith says:

            “Woe to you, [Ministerial Servants] and [Elders], hypocrites! You [turn in your monthly field service report, read each issue of the Wathtower, and avoid tight pants], yet you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. These things should have been done without neglecting the others. Blind guides! You strain out a gnat, yet gulp down a camel!”

            Since like me, you were raised in this religion, Ricardo, have you ever considered whether other Christian religions out there may actually show love and kindness? If a church celebrated Christmas, but made it about Jesus and loving and giving to others, do you think it would be more or less contemptible to Jehovah than the way the JWs behave?

            “Woe to you, [Ministerial Servants] and [Elders], hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as fit for hell as you are!”

            WS

          • Ricardo says:

            @WS,
            Didn’t Paul say that if we put our heart into Christian activities but didn’t have love, then we were like a clanging bit of metal? Like what Messenger says, will God destroy someone just because he hasn’t quite got his beliefs right? I am tending to believe like Messenger at the moment that there are true Christians spread throughout the churches due to the wheat still being mixed with the weeds.

            Your question is a good one. Leads to the question of what is more important: truth or Christian qualities. As no one knows absolute truth, it would seem that Christian qualities are the target, with a heart that keeps seeking for truth.

  33. Silas Thompson says:

    Ricardo
    What’s your history & story &
    Why do you feel oppression from your congregation.
    I’m waiting for a knee operation.

    • Ricardo says:

      @Silas,
      My story is long and complicated, but I will try to give you a condensed review of it. It is a story I would like to proclaim from the rooftops.

      I am a fourth generation Witness whose father was an elder and presiding overseer. In my early 20’s I went to serve where the need is greater in Asia, had tremendous success, I helped about 20 people into the truth, 4 of whom became elders. All together my time in Asia comes to around 20 years.

      My troubles began mainly when I got married in the Lord. After showing the elders (on the instructions of the CO) love letters sent from a single elder (who was an MTS graduate and special pioneer) to my brother-in-law, the elders dismissed the expressions of love and heartbreak and instead instructed me to get over whatever problems I had with the single elder, and to have no further contact with the CO regarding the matter. The CO was not impressed, and the end result was that the love letters were sent to the branch with a request to help the single elder, and the single elder then stood down as an elder and pioneer.

      Not long after this my wife and I had a disagreement and she ran away back to her parents. She contacted the elders, who then invited me to a reconciliation meeting. During the reconciliation meeting a committee meeting was started, resulting in me being stood down as a pioneer and publicly reproved, with my wife for unexplainable reasons being privately reproved. When the CO visited he called it a kangaroo court and advised me to appeal the decision. I met up a further three times with the elders, where prayers were again said each time, to try to sort this out, before I appealled. The end result was that the appeal committee found the issue was not a committee matter, my wife and I were given apologies by the elders and my discipline was rescinded.

      After that abuse I returned to Australia as a Regular Pioneer, only to be told by the elders in Oz that I would not be allowed to RP because I spoke negatively about the elders (no examples of what I said were offered). After a year I qualified to AP (the 2nd time in my life it had taken me a year to qualify to AP) and then some months later I was allowed to RP (previously it had taken another year to qualify to RP). So, I was regular pioneering, but I only got 839 hours that year, not the necessary 840. Well, the COBE and Secretary came to my front door and said they wanted me to quit pioneering cos I couldn’t get the hours, and when I said I would appeal they lost their temper and shouted at me, with my family inside the house hearing them. I appealled and was allowed to continue pioneering in a different congregation.

      After my son became a publisher and my wife had been AP every 2nd month for a couple of years in the new cong, we returned to Asia.

      In the area where I had spent so many years pioneering there were now 2 new Kingdom Halls ready to be dedicated. Old timers who I had pioneered with were invited from the US and neighbouring countries, and there I was, still an RP, in the area where I had been very fruitful. Well, guess what? My family was not invited to either dedications. I was the only RP not invited, my wife the only witness in her village not invited. This caused incredible loss of face for my wife. When I complained to an elder about it, he told me to get over it. When I met with the elder who arranged the invitations (let’s call him Des), together with the CO, Des admitted he didn’t invite us as he didn’t like us. He said we should have been invited but he purposely didn’t invite us.

      Well, my wife had had enough. She didn’t want to be a witness anymore, or a wife or a mother. So she got her father to kick us out of the family home and stopped coming to the meetings. Bro. Des blamed me, the elders in the local cong blamed me. My wife had no further contact with her son, not answering his calls, and because the spouse visa had ran out, my son and I returned to Australia. Not long afterwards my wife jumped into bed with a passerby, got pregnant and got disfellowshipped. Bro Des was the chairman of the committee, and he refused to inform me that she had been disfellowshipped.

      I wrote a letter of request to the body of elders in my congregation in Oz, where I am now, to find out when my wife got disfellowshipped. That was one and a half years ago. They tell me they have a letter (they received it about a year ago) but they won’t give it to me or tell me the date she got disfellowshipped. Why?

      The elder in charge of my group criticized me publicly the other day in front of my son.

      And back in the cong in Asia, my friend who has been seeking justice due to his elders lying to him, has just been informed by the CO after investigation that the letter the elders read to him telling him it came from the GB is really a forged letter the 3 elders put together.

      These experiences, and others I have left out are only part of what I have experienced. These experiences expose a culture of bullying that runs through our organization. Rather than a spirit of love, there is a spirit of bullying and oppression coming from our leadership.

      Before you contradict that, ask yourself:
      How many brothers do you know that have had to wait 1 year to qualify to AP? This happened to me twice.
      How many brothers have then had to wait one year to qualify to RP?
      How many brothers do you know who have been yelled at by the elders seeking to step him down because he got 839 RP hours?
      How many RP’s do you know who are not invited to the dedication of their local hall?
      How many brothers do you know who are not informed of their wife being disfellowshipped?
      And although I regularly attend meetings with my son, go preaching and do rv’s with him, prepare the study article and we answer at the meetings, not one elder has given commendation, saying “Well done”. How many brothers do you know like that?
      And yet, how many brothers do you know who have studied with 4 guys who have become elders?

      This abuse I have sustained for years from our ‘loving’ shepherds is what makes me fearful of what next the elders will do, probably targetting my son.

      True Christians were not only to do the preaching work. They are also supposed to love one another. How can we claim this organization has love? How can it be headed by a loving compassionate Jesus?

      I believe in Jehovah and Jesus and I love them. But I no longer believe this is God’s organization.

      • Big B says:

        Man Ricardo;

        God bless you for your Job-like patience. I commend you for not going off on those ‘loving elders’ (read:morons). I would not have taken it, not from idiot elders or numb skull CO’s or those mental midgets in Wallkill, N.Y.

        Unfortunately, until good old Silas has something bad happen to him and pull his head out of his indoctrinated derriere, and truly does RESEARCH he won’t get it and probably will not respond to your pointed questions about the operation of his ‘precious’ spirit inspired organization.

        That being said, you my friend have my backing and full support. You are a member of the ‘walking wounded’ a true survivor of Watchtower abuse. I salute you! 🙂

        Big B

        • Ricardo says:

          @Big B,
          Thank you for your sympathies. I rarely receive any sympathy from fellow witnesses, unless they too are victims.

          Which brings me to Silas. I have been quiet to give him the chance to comment. He was the one who asked me to explain. Then nothing. Nothing. No sympathy. No commendation. Not even any condemnation. Just ignoring me.

          Okay, let’s give him the benefit of the doubt and say he has suddenly been called to the hospital to have his knee operation. Or he may have fallen down the stairs because of his bad knees and be in hospital now. Or maybe his daughter found out he was commenting on an apostate site and told him he was very naughty.

          Unfortunately, my story is similar to so many other stories. I could tell a few here, but we know there are so many.

          When we see pictures of the new world paradise, we don’t imagine there are lorries running over people there. But in the ‘spiritual paradise’ there are figurative lorries running over people, and when the lorry driver is often on the platform, the pain of the injustice is compounded and compounded at every meeting.

          We are told that it is rare for injustices to happen in the org. Yet when they do they cost us a lot of money, in fact millions of contributions go to pay compensation, and they get worldwide attention, as seen by the ARC.

          Yet, the Watchtower will tell us that there is no reason for any to fall out of the truth due to injustice. This is dealing with the symptoms rather than the disease. The lorry drivers, the disease, are getting away scot free.

          I saw a dog get run over by a lorry once while I was in field service. It yelped and yelped and yelped. Could we help it by telling it the driver is an imperfect human, so just get over it? Or by saying the drivers are not trained for that sort of obstacle? No, what the animal needed was immediate help and compassion.

          When I needed help and compassion, all I got was brothers like Silas who treated me like road-kill. Maybe I am considered a hopeless case.

          Very Christian way of doing things? I think not. But there are bound to be many more victims while the elders are given free rein to bully the sheep.

        • Ricardo says:

          @Big B,
          When I said I don’t get much sympathy from fellow witnesses, I meant it as a general statement. I wasn’t meaning that you are a fellow witness. If I remember right you are an ex-witness. Funny, I get sympathy from ex-witnesses but not fellow witnesses. I just wanted to explain that, just in case of misunderstanding.

      • Johnny Quest says:

        I understand that the Guinness book of records are keeping a close watch on the letter writing campaign to the Russian Authorities as it may surpass previous records. So JWs will make it into the book of records yet again.
        Remember the previous entries, no,
        well let me remind you
        1) publication and readership figures for the book “the truth that leads to eternal life”
        2) printing and distribution of the Bible
        JW.org is the most translated website with over 700 languages so that should be in the book of records too.

        How about magazine readership John.
        Go on to all the websites that list the top ten magazines in the world.
        What’s at number 2 and number 1
        Any idea?
        I’ll leave you to work that one out.
        But just in case you are too ignorant to find out, I’ll send one of the websites that do these surveys over
        to you.
        Enjoy! And then pass these comments over to your followers and Lloyd too, if you dare.

        Do you and Lloyd and all your tiny following ever get the feeling you are fighting a losing battle.
        One things for sure as well, not only are you losing this battle, but looks like you are going to be on the losing side in the Armegeddon War as well.

        Kind Regards
        ST

      • ROBIN MILLER says:

        This is truly horrible and should have never happened to you nor your former wife. You both worked hard in the preaching work. Shame on those elders for their bullying tactics – Jehovah see’s everything. I can say some are wonderful brothers and sisters and others are Satan’s seeds.

        • Ricardo says:

          @ROBIN,

          Thank you for your kind thoughts. I wish we could hear some comforting words from Silas, but his reaction seems to be what most witnesses prefer: stick your head in the sand. Unfortunately, this is reality for so many of us. Sticking your head in the sand doesn’t help us.

          I think the sheep have been so foolish to put up with this for so long. If we would act against these guys, tell them they are lousy Christians, do something. But don’t just ignore it. And don’t blame yourself.

          • Johnny Quest says:

            Ricardo,
            its time for you to stop moping, moaning, sulking , pining, brooding, idling,loafing, despairing and feeling sorry for yourself.
            how many more words of comfort do you need.? how pathetic.
            by the way, i think Silas Thompson has been banned because his free speech didnt go down to well with the bosses.

          • Ricardo says:

            @JohnnyQuest,
            Thank you for your words of sympathy, Johnny. You asked on the other page what proof that the JW’s do not have the true religion. I would suggest you look in the mirror for your proof. Are you reacting as Jesus would react? Did he not feel sympathy and love for the sheep which were mistreated by the shepherds? And yet you come back at me with harsh words! You may be a good witness, Johnny, but you are a pathetic Christian. Unfortunately, being a good witness does not guarantee salvation. Being a good Christian does.

            Unfortunately you have responded like most witnesses when presented with proof they don’t like: stick your head in the sand and ignore it.

            Unfortunately, this is not advantageous for you Johnny. Kicking a sheep in the stomach while it is weak and injured does not earn you much support or respect. It just shows up your callousness. It actually gives JW’s a bad name. It certainly does not reflect a christ-like personality, but rather one that reflects the personality of the evil slave.

  34. Janice Hussock says:

    I am very busy with my law practice so I do not have time to listen or watch a long videos. Democracy is precious. Our freedoms are not guaranteed unless we hold them dear. While I am no friend of the Watchtower, I am drafting a letter to Putin as a member of the Amnesty International legal support network. My letter shall clearly state that as an American lawyer I shall stand with the Watchtower on this single issue. Banning a religion that is not engaged in criminality is wrong. It is ineffective. I worship at the Cathedral Church of St. John the Divine in Manhattan. The Cathedral has many icons. Canon West, the subdean at the time, was my confirmation sponsor. The man adored the Eastern church. The Soviets were unable to stop the influence of the Russian Orthodox Church. I vividly recall a National Geographic photograph that showed a young Russian Orthdox priest in cassock and long beard. The Russians defied the ban the Stalinists imposed. In like manner, Jehovah’s Witnesses will not disappear.

    Those of us who enjoy freedom must support freedom. As Benjamin Franklin once said, “Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.” Jehovah’s Witnesses may be annoying. Their main doctrines are false and misleading. I argue that they may be constrained by public opinion. If no one else defends their freedom, I shall.

  35. Johnny Quest says:

    CAROLINE,
    What you fail to acknowledge is that the promoters of the IDEAS that Moloch (Molech) and Yahweh were of the same origin, namely the GERMAN philosophers Friedrich Wilhelm Ghillany and Georg Friedrich Daumer were contributors to the debate raging at that time regarding THE JEWISH QUESTION. A debate that raged throughout 1843-1844
    Here are some samples of their philosophies regarding the JEWS. “They have been an alien, foreign element within Germany for more than a thousand years. “ But it would be best for Europe if they were to emigrate….to Palestine ….or to America.”
    “One should not even avoid a financial sacrifice to have the Jews leave Germany and found a state in their promised land, and so free our fatherland of its foreign element. For it is not only the devout dogma of theirs that alienates them from the German Volk, but the dishonour of the Jewish character in general, that filthy essence of body and soul, that single struggle to gain money at the cost of honour, that selling of everything……….lack of concern for the general good.”
    “I do not conceal it from you that I should like the Germans to learn to be free of a revolting oriental stamp that cannot ever be in accord with the Germanic”
    THEY DELIBERATELY WANTED TO ASSOCIATE THE GOD OF ISRAEL YAWWEH (JEHOVAH) WITH BLOODLUST , HUMAN SACRIFICE AS IT SERVED THEIR EVIL INTENT REGARDING JEWS
    NEED I SAY ANY MORE ON THESE TWO PATHETIC EXCUSES FOR HUMAN BEINGS AND THEIR EVIL PHILOSOPHIES. WHY ARE YOU REALLY PUTTING YOUR TRUST IN ANYTHING THEY HAVE WRITTEN.?
    THEY ARE VERY FOUNDATION AND INSPIRATION OF HITLER
    SHAME ON YOU CAROLINE!!!!
    YOU REALLY NEED TO DO THOROUGH RESEARCH ON YOUR BELIEFS!!!!

    As regards your third paragraph and Jesus’s role as a mediator I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. But I suppose that again you are showing your ignorance of the truth of the Bible. It points out that Moses was not a mediator between Jehovah and the Whole World at that time. Moses was a mediator of the covenant relationship between Jehovah and the nation of Israel ( fleshly Israel)his chosen people. NOW therefore Jesus is the mediator of the covenant relationship between Jehovah God and “Spiritual Israel” who are the 144,000, a remnant that are on Earth at the moment who form part of the governing body. Remember Jesus on that final night spoke of “covenant for a Kingdom”to his faithful disciples after dismissing Judas. These disciples who Jesus formed an agreement or covenant with (remember as mediator between Jehovah and 144,000) have been ruling in heaven since 1914 onwards as part of 144000 in a co-rulership with Jesus. It’s all been “agreed, signed and delivered” as the saying goes.
    As regards your obsession with 586/587 and your issue with 607 BCE im not going to get drawn into a long drawn out futile exercise in chronology with you as it would take too long. You need to obtain the book SAOC 24. Babylonian Chronology, 626 B.C. – A.D. 45
    BY Richard A. Parker and Waldo H. Dubberstein who I do not believe are Jehovah’s Witnesses. But they are an authority on chronology.
    You really need to also remember that the Jews were in expectation of the Messiah to appear at around the time of Jesus birth, and this expectation was based on their knowledge of the prophecies and chronology in the Bible regarding the Babylonian destruction of Jerusalem in 607 BCE and the prophecy regarding the rebuilding of the temple which the Babylonians destroyed in 607 BCE.

    Of course you couldn’t care less about hell fire, immortal soul or the trinity, and that’s because Jehovah’s Witnesses have proved them to be false and there is nothing you can bring to the table to prove otherwise. If you are going to make any attempt to explain hell fire for example, perhaps you’d care to explain why the Catholic Church appear to be distancing themselves from it. Which is a bit like their apologies for NAZI collaboration – all too late.
    Here’s a scripture for you from the King James Version at Acts 2 verse 31 “ He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell”
    The American Standard uses the word “Hades” instead of “Hell” and the Byington version uses the phrase “the realm of death” instead of “Hell”
    So my question to you is being as you are such an authority and you have such a wealth of Christian and bible experience, IF HELL FIRE IS FOR EVIL PEOPLE TO SUFFER AND BE TORMENTED WHY DOES THE BIBLE INDICATE THAT JESUS WENT TO HELL? BUT WAS RESURRECTED AND NOT LEFT THERE?
    I once called on a Muslim who tried to explain to me that depending on the severity of the evil we might commit, then there are different temperatures of the heat in Hell that we will be subjected too.
    The false teaching of Hellfire has led to false offshoots like purgatory and limbo, found in many other religions i.e. voodooists.
    You are wrong to say that the Bible contains contradictions, The Bible contains apparent contradictions, but on closer inspection the apparent contradiction is not rocket science to clear up.
    As you can see the hellfire doctrine is an apparent Bible contradiction and I have given you clues to clear it up, but no doubt you are another person that buries your head in the sand.
    Are you seriously saying that we are taught 200 scriptures to disprove the trinity and hellfire and that it!!! Believe me there are many more than that. You are deluded and I have not seen one scripture that proves hellfire, trinity or immortal soul. Of all the terminology to use to describe the relationship between Jehovah God and Jesus the words Father and Son are used. You expect me to believe that this indicates equality between them. Jesus said the father is greater than I. Jesus said “I do nothing of my own initiative”. Again you are being misled and you are deluded. As an exercise just try reading the 200 scriptures again for yourself, if you have no time to read all the others for now.
    Unfortunately time does not permit me to answer all your other futile attempts to present me with questions that can be easily addressed on the jw.org website.
    Particularly as you should be spending time addressing my challenge to you in my previous blog to you.
    What hope have you got and what hope are you offering to these doomed individuals that frequent this site.

    AS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY EXPLAINED, YOU HAVE ASSOCIATED YOURSELF WITH HITLERS PHILOSOPHIES,
    WHATS YOUR EXCUSE? I REPEAT , YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED. AND THAT’S ANOTHER REASON I’M NOT PREPARED TO ANSWER ANY MORE OF YOUR QUESTIONS UNTIL YOU EXPLAIN YOURSELF.
    HITLER, PUTIN ( ALL THE SAME)

    • Caroline says:

      Johnny Quest, I did not see your comment until today so I will try and reply as best as I can. You have a lot of points so I will do the best I can.

      Like I said before I was a Witness from 1964 until 2014 so I know what I am talking about when it comes to JW beliefs and doctrines and also what the Bible says.

      I do not have anything against the Jews and I would never condemn any Jew because of the god of the Hebrew Bible.

      According to Watchtower, the only truly “inspired” Bible was the original manuscripts so there are no really “inspired” of God Bibles. Bibles were hand written by Scribes and even though there are thousands of Bible manuscripts dating from the 4th century onward, there are no manuscripts of the early Hebrew Bible, supposedly written by Moses. The earliest Bible manuscript that anybody has found that contains the tetragrammaton is about the size of a credit card.

      There are a lot of history books dealing with the Hebrew manuscripts but everything that any scholar has to say is only supposition and guess work. Nobody really knows much about the Hebrew Bible for sure but there are lots of artifacts that people can study to see what those people were worshipping, especially around the time of when Abraham would have been in the land of Canaan where they can study the culture and ruins etc. and there is absolutely no evidence at all that the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt happened and Jews today recognize that. They also don’t believe that the stories in the Bible regarding the exploits of the Jews happened either but there are plenty of ruins that testify to the fact that the early Jews did sacrifice their children to their gods and our Bibles today testify to that by many Bible scriptures. The Jews started out worshipping many gods and the Bible even says that Abraham was worshipping other Gods before Yahweh, but eventually they came to believe in the one god Yahweh.

      The Jews know that their ancestors sacrificed their children to their god Yahweh and they are actually ashamed of that fact but they still do believe that their God Yahweh is the creator of the universe and they still do worship that God. Do they still burn their children to their God Yahweh? I don’t think so. But that was the belief for many years and also it is the Bible that puts the blame on the the death of the “Christian god Jesus” on the Jews of Jesus’ day, is the reason why Jews have been persecuted down through the years. Even slavery was used as the reason to enslave people for hundreds of years. The reason the Jews have been persecuted has nothing to do with believing that Yahweh and Satan is the same God. It is because “Christians” believe that the Jews killed Jesus. I am sure that Hitler would have believed in the Hebrew God Yahweh because he was a good Catholic and Catholics believe that Jesus and Yahweh are the same god. It has only been within the last hundred years, that scholars have studied the Bible and compared the Scriptures with the artifacts discovered at Ras Shamra (ancient Ugrit) to discover that the ancient Canaanites were worshipping the same gods as the ancient Jews were worshipping.

      I would have to blame the Jews for killing Jesus to be like Hitler and I believe that if you read your Bible, you believe that the Jews killed Jesus, like Hitler did. That is what the Bible teaches. I don’t believe in the inerrancy of the Bible (as described above why) but if the Bible is inerrant, then the god that the Hebrew Scriptures describe as the god of the Jews, to me is a disgusting God. The god of the Greek Scriptures is a much more likeable character though, in my opinion, but like I said before, the Jews do not believe the Bible is inerrant anyway and there’s tons of evidence that none of those stories could have even happened anyway, which is another reason that I don’t believe it, even for history’s sake.

      In the book of John, John said over and over again “the Jews”, not the Romans who were actually the ones who really were out to kill the “Christians”. The gospels are slanted towards the Jews killing Jesus because I believe that it was the Caesars who actually wrote the Bible and they worked with the Roman Catholic Church to decide which books would go into the Bible Canon and why, and they worked with the Catholic Church using the monks to write the Bible and that is why all those manuscripts start showing up in the 4th century after Constantine decided to make “Christianity” the state religion because by that time, half the Roman Empire were believers in Jesus Christ and he was fighting a losing battle.

      As far as the immortal soul, hellfire and the trinity, if I was going to believe the Bible, I’d go with the Society’s explanation with those beliefs before I’d go with Christendom’s teachings, so there is no argument with me there.

      As far as 607 B.C.E. goes, it’s in the history books that Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 B.C.E. and even those two articles the Society ran in 2011 even admit that they are the only ones who think that Jerusalem might have been destroyed in 607. It’s in the footnote in one of those articles.

      If you want to find out for yourself about some of the contradictions, just compare the last few days of Jesus’ death and resurrection, just for a start.

      Even though there are thousands of early manuscripts, there are no two alike and every contradiction found in the Bible, the Society chalks it up to human scribal error, so how can you trust anything it says?

  36. Ryan Stuber says:

    The JW’s are sincere, but belong to an organization that promotes family dissension toward any that leave and hide CRIMES against children they claim to love and protect. Elders routinely stick their nose into suspected wrongdoers personal and sexual business,…all based on Old Testament and not Christian teachings. They are taught to view any not belonging as Armageddon “road-kill” Hmmm,…a harmful and dangerous sect or cult? Go Putin! BTW, I was one for 38 years, served on two elder bodies and have been shunned by my kids. I believe I have “freeness of speech” in this matter.

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