About JW Survey

A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…

It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.

The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!

This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.

The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.

A website for all

This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.

We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.

The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.

Who started this website?

I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.

I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.

It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.

An unmerciful practice

For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)

Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.

There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?

Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)

Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.

The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.

The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”

These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.

Only human

It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.

The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.

I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.

Warmest regards,

 

new-cedars-signature2

247 Responses to About JW Survey

  1. RJ says:

    1. The Law of Large Numbers, a mathematical science requires an adequate sampling of data. In other words, the amount of data required in a sampling is in direct proportion to the size of the entire. The larger the entire group, the larger the sampling must be.

    Now, lets look at the survey by Cedars that I took. As I understand it, approx. 3-4,000 responses have been measured. It make it a bit easier, let’s just say that it is actually 10,000. If the total pool is the entire earth( internet is almost everywhere) that’s one thing. Let’s assume that the pool is just one country, say the U.S.

    Here are the numbers:
    if worldwide 0.000001428% responded
    if just U..S 0.00003125% responded

    In either of the above cases, the sampling(homogeneous units) a such a minute amount in relation to the larger pool that the results cannot be relied upon from a scientific standpoint. Therefore, because the data is so small, the conclusions arrived at cannot be relied upon.

  2. Rowland Nelken says:

    I am sure an essay on the predictive value of statistics will be very interesting. I have no idea, however, what on earth it has to do with this blog.

    Has anyone here made any predictions based on a small and utterly random sample of data?

    Has anyone here made claims for the value of statistics based on data of negligible volume and gathered with no regard to method or sampling?

    If they have I have missed it. This appears to me simply to be a forum where those who, either by direct experience or other means of getting to know the Jehovah’s Witnesses, can share information and express their views.

    I have never read any claims by anyone that the contributors are representatitve in age, country, rank or depth of involvement in the JW business.

    To those who know anything at all about the JW organisation there are only 7 individuals out of 8 million members who have a voice. The title of this blog explains that it is a place where the majority can express their opinions.

    That every opinion expressed here about the JW business is negative may well be coincidence. It does, however, seem remarkable, that even those contributors who claim to be active JW members have not, so far as I am aware, described any positive achievements of the Watchtower outfit in its 135 year history. Despite repeated invitations none has presented a jot of evidence to suggest that JW TRUTH might be true.

    A series of essays on the predictive value of statistics and the validity of data may well be very interesting and enlightening. So, also, would an illustrated talk on sunspots, breeding Persian cats or making vegetable curry.

    None, however, would bear much relevance to the exchange of information and experiences on the misery making JW cult.

  3. RJ says:

    Next, the data must be accurate in the literal sense. If the data is not verifiable and from a varied source in a scientific way, then it is not reliable. For example, just because I say it, that doesn’t make it fact. Also, if I poll 100,000 people and ask them if Jesus Christ is our savior, and the mast majority respond negatively, it is of no value when we find out that the poll was conducted in a country where most people are Muslim.

    When I apply this requirement to the survey on this website, here is the problem.
    Can the responses be verified? Did any people respond more that once, simply using a different email address? From what group of individuals was the survey taken? Did the responders answer honestly and in an accurate manner? The answers to these questions are not known in a definite way. Therefore, they cannot be relied upon from my viewpoint.

  4. Rowland Nelken says:

    RJ. Has Cedars made any claims that this survey has scientific validity?

    I have never read any such claim. If he has please enlighten us.

    If he has not, your remarks are an irrelevance.

  5. Rowland Nelken says:

    It may well be that the bulk of 8 million JWs worldwide actually believe that JW TRUTH, in all its mutations and flip flops is TRULY TRUTHFUL TRUE TRUTH.

    They may well believe that the 7 Gov. Bod. members are God’s exclusive earthly reps. and that the bulk of the world’s population, who do not live their lives according to their every diktat, are indeed controlled by Satan and fully deserve an imminent execution.

    If that is the case, then this site, along with the growing number of sites which tell the truth about JW TRUTH can only be a good thing.

    Those of us who have left, and there is a growing number, feel strongly enough about the horrors of JWdom to campaign to expose the organisation, and hopefully, to get it transformed or eliminated.

    The handful of believing JWs who have contributed here presumably believe this obscene nonsense. None, however, has supplied any evidence to support this bizarre and ghastly contention.

    Of course, pro and anti, we who have written here are but a small and random sample, and nobody has made any claims to the contrary.

    Do you imagine, RJ, that an essay on statistics is a substitute for your persistent failure to answer questions? Do you imagine, RJ, that an essay on statistics is a substitute for being utterly unclear in explaining your position regarding the Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  6. RJ says:

    Finally, assumptions and conclusions must be directly as a result of the results of the study.

    For example, let’s say I start my own church and I get 5 members in the first year. Then at the end of the second year I now have 100 members. That is a fantastic increase, perhaps making my new church the fastest growing church in the world! And that may be true in once sense. Now, as a result of my data, I conclude that my church has what you folks on this blog refer to as the “truth” and my church is the true church. You would say that I must be some kind of a nut to assert such conclusions.

    Well, I have read conclusions and opinions from many on this blog that I think fit in this same category.

    Read them. JW are the leaders in the US in divorce, separation, suicide, depression, etc. You say they are among the lowest in the US in income. Where’s the data?

    Divorce and separation statistics do not include specific religion info.
    Suicide numbers are determined by death certificates, which do not list religious affiliation.
    Income reports are not based on religion
    Even census reports are vague when it comes to religious connections
    HIPPA laws are so restrictive, it would be impossible to link depression (a medical condition) to a specific religion.

    Cedars gives me the impression that the board of directors of the JWs (GB as you refer to them) do not reply to his submitted results because of a fear of the truth or something. In the real world, there is not a statistics expert, mathematics scientist that would take value in Cedar’s survey from a scientific view let alone a logical one , so why would the JW’s hierarchy?

    Also, financial stability, growth and/or any other financial data cannot be derived by the statistics presented on this web site concerning the number of magazines printed and the frequency or size of such. The first year student in a financial class in high school knows that a P&L and balance sheet over a period of time is the tool to determine financial strength.

  7. Rowland Nelken says:

    Why areyou so keen to set up this straw man, RJ, of a rigourous and fool proof survey?

    No such claim has been made.

    All you are doing is writing the sort of stuff on stats that is common knowledge to us lay folk.

    OK, we know you are proud of your pedigree in statistics. You have trumpeted it. Congratulations on getting to know the basics of this subject and sharing some basic principles on here. Do you grow roses? Breed goldfish? Race stock cars?

    If you do we’d love to know.

    What, however, would be even more interesting would be for you to explain your involvement, if any, with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and, if you approve of the organisation, whether you can enlighten us as to any of its benefits.

    Most contributors on here, and we do not claim to be a representative sample of anything; we are a random bunch; know only of horrible and negative things about the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Some of your earlier posts suggested you did not like reading negative things about the JWS.

    You have been asked repeatedly to tell us of anything positive about the JWs, but you have declined.

  8. RJ says:

    As I attempt to explain myself, here goes Rowland Nelken again, pushing the same old sarcasm, accusations, condescending talk about me as a person.

    Don’t you get it Rowland? The tab I clicked on is labeled “About JWsurvey”. I responded to tell what I think about JW Survey. All you want it to be about is you, your bad life experiences and a debate about JWs.

    You say you do not see the people here on this blog and the website itself voicing conclusions that are at this time opinions and not established fact?

    You make all types of challenges to me, knowing that I have already told you I will not discuss things that are above my knowledge level.

  9. Rowland Nelken says:

    What wonderful modesty, RJ!

    You will not explain things that are above your knowledge level.

    So you do not know whether you are or were a Jehovah’s Witness.

    You do not know whether there are benefits that have resulted, for anyone anywhere, during the 135 year ministry of the JWs.

    You do not know whether you are an apologist for the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    You do not know of any evidence which might suggest that JW TRUTH is true.

    How very peculiar!

  10. anonymous says:

    R.J. I don’t know if you know much about our religion but none of us are allowed to converse with each other on any of the questions or doubts that we may have in this religion, that are in Cedar’s survey. If we were to start asking each other those questions, even within our own families, we’d be labeled apostates and will be disfellowshipped or shut up permanently from being able to talk to our friends in any of the congregations and even our own families. That is the point for this web site.

    Lloyd set it up so that we could converse with each other so that we’d know that we are not the only ones who have certain doubts about the Organization. Until I found this website, I thought I was all alone in my pain and almost suicidal because of what this religion has done to me and I had absolutely nobody to talk to. This “survey” has literally saved my life.

    If you delve more into the intent of Cedar’s website, you will see what it’s really all about. As a matter of fact, if the Society would send out surveys to see how the silent majority really feel about this religion, they’d have their eyes opened to the fact that what is keeping the “silent” majority of us entrapped in this religion is the fear of Armageddon and the guilt trip placed on all Witnesses that the whole world of mankind will die unless we get out there and preach. Maybe that’s why you will never see any surveys from the Society and in fact, you won’t ever see any of the Governing Body even answering any questions from the rank and file and especially of those who have disassociated themselves. Are they afraid of what they’d see in any surveys? I think so.

    Also, what keeps Witnesses from using their brains to test that they really do have the truth, is that if they should test that they are in the “truth”, they are telling the Organization that they no longer have faith that they (Governing Body) are God’s chosen mouthpiece and anyone calling into question the Society’s claim, will be called before a committee for apostasy.

    We are not allowed to “test” that we have the true religion. We just have to take the Society’s word for it. Nobody should ever be afraid to test that they have the right religion.

  11. RJ says:

    When it comes to hate, simply read the posts from the bloggers here. Hate does not have to be toward individuals to be hate. It can be hatred for a group, an organization, even a thought. Hatred is commonly displayed via sarcasm, demeaning statements, condescending talk and the like. Rowland Nelken is a shining example of this, simply read Rowland’s comments. He/she is so wrapped up in trying to dominant me with his/her tongue, belittle me when I try to share info I DO know about and advance his/her opinion that he/she cannot allow him/herself to look at this site through the eyes of a person who is not marching in step with his/her ideology. I confidently say that if I was qualified to debate the merits of JWism with you, I would not. You are much too abusive of a person for me to deal with on an adult level.

    You have accused me of being a JW, a JW apologist, arrogant, the list of personal attacks go on. When in reality, you do no know me from Adam. However, in your words old “geezers” should not be followed. I am proud to be what you call an old “geezer” in that I have been alive for quite a while. If you are a male, you too are either an old “geezer” or working every day to become one in time. By your abuses to me personally here, perhaps even a “bitter old geezer”. That is sad.

    Show your true self more evident. Reply to this last message of mine and lay it on as thick as what makes you think enhances your image amongst your peers here on this blog. God forbid any of them disagree with you.

  12. RJ says:

    P.S. I didn’t see the comment from anonymous until I posted the last comment. So this one IS definitely my last.

    Anonymous, read your last post to me very closely. Your complaint about JWs is I am sure from your heart. Read what type of person Rowland, a major contributor since I first commented, is. I think you will see exactly what you claim about the JW organization. Rowland thinks there is no other viable view, Rowland attacks when something contrary to Rowland’s views are expressed, Rowland belittles, verbally bashes with sarcasm and apparently has no respect for a doubter. Rowland refuses to listen to the talk of someone else when it disagrees with him/her. This is not heresay or opinion, it comes from Rowland’s mouth directly.

    Finally, Rowland, in my opinion would NOT be the source of relief from what you say is your current situation, because Rowland has shown me he/she to be exactly what you say has made you suicidal.

    Read Rowland’s abusive comments and such and ask yourself if that is the type of person you would want as an advisor or mentor. If your answer is yes, then you have arrived. If not, stay away from that person and any who are similar.

    Read Rowland’s response to this and he/she will prove once more what I say is true.

  13. anonymous says:

    Hi R.J. I too am old. I married a JW man who was an elder and used me as his personal punching bag for the first 15 years of our marriage until my oldest daughter was now old enough to be a “witness” to his abuse. When I finally did get up the courage to report his abuse it was when I was 8 months pregnant with my 2nd baby and he punched me in the stomach with his fist, I didn’t get a listening ear even then. The other elder told me that it was understood because of all the pressure “HE” was going through because of his job of being an elder.

    I could write a book about the abuse that I have had to live through because of this religion. If you know anything about this religion, a woman is not free to go to the elders and get a listening ear if the husband is an elder or if you don’t have witnesses. It’s a man’s world in the religion and if a woman wants to get a divorce, she will be labeled and shunned. I am not alone. Men also suffer I am sure and I assume that Rowland has his own story to tell. When you are in this religion, you can have a drunkard for a husband, an adulterer for a husband, an abuser for a husband and nobody is allowed to tell the others in the congregation or even family members how you have suffered. You are not even allowed to tell the police about your abuse. You are not allowed to confide in family members if you are in this religion. That is the way it is set up.

    To say that we all have our own stories is a given when we come onto Lloyd’s web site. It has been a life-saver for all of us, I am sure. We have all been led to believe when we became a Witness that it was a loving and Godly organization but when you become one, you will quickly see that it’s run by 8 men in New York and anything BUT Godly. Everyone who is a true believer equate the 8 men in New York as Jehovah God. They won’t admit it, but it’s true. You can try and talk to them that it’s not true that they equate the Organization as Jehovah, but they have been brainwashed and it’s like talking to a brick wall to get anybody to see that.

    This web site helps us all who come on here to see that we aren’t alone and it’s therapy for us, since we are also not allowed to even seek professional help because as the elder’s secret book says, that if we seek professional help, we can’t divulge anything that is confidential, ie. abuse.

    Do you understand why Rowland could be bitter and overly sensitive to a Watchtower apologist? I sure can. That is the situation you need to take into account when you might perceive a comment as against you. It isn’t against you as a person. It’s against anybody who will defend the indefensible (the lying organization known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society). That is why we are always asking people if they want to defend the Society, please come forward with something that can make us feel that we didn’t waste our lives on it. We welcome that. We don’t hate anybody who can do that. We’d be eternally grateful if you could do that.

  14. Holy Connoli says:

    I have been following Rowland and RJ conversations with interest. IN my opinion it is time to let it go for both. The conversations are both going negative and have no purpose anymore between the 2 of you.. They have just turned into a spitting match now. However, Rowland asked some simple questions of RJ that he just doesn’t want to answer about his affiliation with the JW’s etc. RJ seemed to get away from the point here and go in the direction of a scientific survey etc. All this site does is take the surveys that come in an d most are from JW’s or former JW’s.Rj His his reasons for not wanting to disclose his affiliation with JW’s so just let it be. If he wants to or does not want to support the WT that is his choice. We who were or are JW’s had very good reasons for leaving when we did. I agree with Rowland on his life experiences in the WT Org and many are similar to my own and many other current and former JW’s. As an Elder for many years and an Assembly coordinator at times and popular guest speaker I know what Rowland is saying is true for many. RJ, one point you brought out in your comments about Hate and your explanation o fit is very true for the WT organization itself.

    For example Hatred for a group is shown through Sarcasm, Demeaning Speech,
    demeaning statements, demeaning talks, hatred for a group etc. If we are honest with ourselves these are the very traits and speech the WT and GB teach and hold for all other religions, Calling them the Harlot, Babylon the great,
    All under the influence of Satan the devil. They also hold the same teachings and hatred towards ANY one who leaves the organization and decides through their own free will or on things they have experienced and learned AFTER becoming a JW that they no longer want to be a JW they call them “MENTALLY Diseased” or followers of Satan or other negative hurtful names and they attempt to turn entire families, parents, and friends against them for making a free will decision. Their teaching like this is a built in propaganda machine intended to have the flock be in fear of ever leaving. It isn’t based on any love they have for the flock. In all honesty RJ I am sure you have to agree that the what the WT does in these teachings qualifies to your definition of hate?

  15. Rowland Nelken says:

    Why is it that when JWs (and RJ too, for all that he/she will not answer a simple question about his or her relationship with the JWs) are faced with some basic information about the Watchtower and asked some simple questions they accuse the questioner and bringer of information of ‘hate’?

    This seems to be typical. I find it ironic, that though, I wish JWs the world over a life of freedom from the negative and destructive control of the Watchtower, and thus the chance of a fulfilled life, believing JWs, on the other hand, wish me a violent death at Armageddon along with the bulk of the world’s population.

    The WT’s lit. and talks are filled with hatred towards the entire world beyond the control of the Gov. Bod. Those who are successfully persuaded to believe and preach the JWs’ message of hate, seem also conditioned to accuse of hatred one who wishes them the joys of the fresh air of freedom.

    This is very odd.

  16. Rowland Nelken says:

    I read no abuse in my comments, RJ. I read only unanswered questions. In the JW world asking questions of ‘God’s Organisation’ is considered abusive.

    Is this, RJ, where your misunderstanding and misconceptions arise?

    If you are a JW, RJ, I wish you freedom from the malign and destructive clutches of the Watchtower bosses.

    What attitude you might take to life thereafter I have no idea. It is not my affair, and on this thread, contrary to your misconceptions, I have not advocated any theological view, still less belittled those of others. (Save, of course, those of self styled JW defenders, who, when asked to substantiate their defence, have never offered anything save unsubsatnatiated accusations of hate).

    Best wishes, RJ, and, if you are a JW, here’s to your escape!

  17. anonymous says:

    Hi Rowland. I think some have more cognitive dissonance and are harder to convince than others. Yesterday I was telling my husband (a born in) about how I don’t care if somebody from the Hall won’t listen to me and they want to believe in the Society, that’s their choice but what bothers me the most is, is the Society taking advantage of the brothers and sisters. I brought up how deceitful that was for the elders to read only the first page of that 4 page letter to the congregations on how the Society wasn’t making the congregations pay back their loans but then a few weeks later, the same elders were to tell (not ask) the congregation how they were going to send the Society the same amount of money every month anyway (not to read the next 3 pages that the elders had in that letter). I told my husband it was a scheme to defraud the congregations out of their money, especially if the loan had already been paid off (ours was). All he could say to me in his come back was “I know how much you care about money” and then he points to his belly and says back to me “I am not going hungry”. I accused him of being programmed and of course he’s not programmed and it’s not a cult. They can’t think. It’s as simple as that.

  18. anonymous says:

    and Rowland to add to my last comment……Before I “woke” up, nobody could have reasoned with me either. I had to get to the bottom, to reach out for some help and that’s when I started looking at so-called “apostate” stuff on the internet. So, right now, I am glad it had to get that bad for me, or I’d still be in that depressing religion.

    Last night I was watching a youtube video on how a Mormon Bishop woke up from that religion and it was when he finally thought about what Satan told Eve that she’d be like God if she ate the fruit. It was a simple little thing like that. I remember arguing with my husband and he said something like our religion is the only one that has sayings of everlasting life (quoting the Bible) and I said yes, but that’s what Satan told Eve, that she’d never die. He looked at me funny. It didn’t work on him like that guy from the Mormon religion but at least he stopped talking and thought about it for a moment.

  19. Excelsior! says:

    RJ,

    I thank you for attempting to answer my questions on statistics. Your replies were enlightening and I thank you for them.

    However, you did not answer my second question, which is a pity, as it was the one I really wanted an answer to.

    In the absence of your input, here is my opinion on this site and the survey element.

    Candace Conti has been awarded $28 million for the abuse she suffered whilst a JW. You can look this case up, including all the court documents, RJ. We have all the letters to Elders, we have the entire Shepherding the Flock of God book, which is issued to elders only, and is not to be shown to rank and file members. This book has the child protection policy in it. It is plain as day that the child protection policy of the WTBTS is not fit for purpose. We also have numerous other cases that prove this point. Do we have statistics to prove that the child protection policy is not fit for purpose that match your criteria, RJ? No we don’t. In my opinion, we do not need statistics to prove this. Do you agree?

    This site’s survey is for information only. It does not describe itself as anything but a chance for JWs and ex JWs to express their opinions on topics and questions set by Lloyd. This survey is then sent to the GB for their perusal.
    Lloyd does not have the infrastructure or the ability (he is viewed as an apostate and he would be shunned and is shunned by his family) to survey all JWs. I’m sure that he would be delighted to have that opportunity! So, his sample size is a small percentage of all JWs. This does not negate its usefulness. It can still aid the GB to understand the concerns of that particular sample group.

    RJ, the three points I originally raised with you are facts. The child protection policy is not fit for purpose. Women are not given protection from domestic abuse and are advised to stay with their abusive partner. People who leave or are removed from the JW religion are shunned. These are statements of fact, RJ.

    There is evidence to back up all three of the above statements, whether large statistical studies back these up or not.

    I hope that you will undertake your own personal research on these topics, RJ. Your JW friends may not even realise that these things are going on in their church. How do you feel about that? Are you going to help your JW friends know what is going on in their church, RJ?

    Please, RJ, do your research. There is evidence for all of the problems I raised in my initial response to your first comment.

    Finally, I would like to answer your first point. I do not think that this site is biased. If it were, then it would not direct people to read the WT’s publications for themselves, would it? It would not provide the chance for sincere JWs to comment here, would it?

    I hope that you will conduct your own research and that you will contribute your expertise to helping children, young people, women and all the rank and file of the JW religion to fully understand what is really going on.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  20. Excelsior! says:

    anonymous,

    Dear lady, I am so sorry for the abuse you suffered from your “Christian husband”. It makes me sick to my stomach that any human being could be so cruel and violent, especially to a pregnant woman. I am humbled by your strength and I wish you peace and comfort from your pain and suffering at the hands of this terrible religion.

    We are all trying, in our own ways, to bring an end to this disgusting abuse of women in the WTBTS. Your courageous story has made me even more determined to help end this domestic abuse in the WTBTS. Its advice to women suffering this unspeakable crime is disgusting! The bar on remarrying “in the Lord” if a divorce is obtained because of this disgusting abuse if the abuser has not confessed adultery is revolting! It is not in any way Christian.

    You have my deep and sincere respect, anonymous. It takes real courage and compassion to leave a cult at your stage in life, and after all the sacrifices you have made for it. You are an excellent example to us all, dear lady.

    Peace be with you
    Excelsior!

  21. Rowland Nelken says:

    Thanks for all your comments, guys. The more I read of the comments of other people’s JW experience, and this site provides an excellent opportunity, the more I realise how I got off relatively lightly.

    Only my mother was a committed JW, and with my sister, I ran away from her to our gran’s as mum was utterly neglectful. So fixated was she on the JW New World fantasy, that she thought it not worth while, in terms of home making or childcare, to ‘patch up the old world’. Was that her phrase or did she pick it up at the Kingdom Hall I wonder.

    For all that it was a God delivered absolute TRUTH when I was achild, readers here may be surprised to learn that Armageddon did not occur before the end of the 20th century. With my mind rid of JW misery nonsense by my twenties I have been free to live a fairly fulfilled life.

    My detestation of the JWs, if ever expressed to non JWs in pre internet days, met with bafflement. I had begun to wonder whether the problem was with me. It is this site, and dozens, if not hundreds like it, all over the internet, reassure me that I am not alone. It was not me, but something rotten at the heart of JWdom.

    Is it merely coincidence that it is not merely this site where JWs and sympathisers have nothing positive to tell about the achievements of JWdom in its 135 year history? No JW, ever, anywhere, has provided such information, and certainly no JW has been able to furnish evidence that there might be any truth in JW TRUTH.

    Would a statistically valid and wide ranging survey come up with any positives or any evidence?

  22. Excelsior! says:

    RJ,

    On re reading your comments I spotted an error. You compare the total who have taken the Survey on JW Survey WITH THE POPULATION OF THE ENTIRE USA.

    The whole population of the USA are not JWs.

    You should compare the sample size to the total number of JWs worldwide, which is around 7 to 8 million.

    Would you like to re-run your numbers with this correction? I’m sure the figures will look a lot more like a decent sample size now.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  23. anonymous says:

    Thank you for that Excelsior. It has not been easy and I don’t wish that life on any other person. I want the Watchtower to come crashing down so as to save others from the pain that so many of us have had to go through and are still going through. It doesn’t deserve life. I hope to live long enough to see it.

  24. Faithful Witness says:

    What a great observation! “Many who are alive today, will never die!” I have heard those very words coming from the podium at the Kingdom Hall, and from my mother. I was never a JW.

    The every day JW has very little hope to hang onto, so they must cling to this one belief, and somehow find comfort in the fact that the majority of their loved ones are going to be destroyed… Very soon.

  25. Faithful Witness says:

    I wanted to add that I have followed this conversation with great interest, although I admit that I find myself skimming over the lessons on statistics and accusations of hateful speech. It sounds like RJ is on a personal mission of some type. I hope you are able to find some peace.

    If it is statistics about the Watchtower that you are looking for, I congratulate you for looking at other opinions and viewpoints. Any JW will tell you that you are NOT to listen to what anyone says about them. They will tell you to, “Go to the source!” (Do you think the JW is going to give you any negative opinion of the Society they have dedicated their lives to, even if they personally have doubts about the men they serve? Not without repercussions… Therefore this website has provided a way for these wounded and frightened people to have a small outlet to voice their concerns, even if it is only to one another.)

    Kudos to you, RJ, for checking their references and visiting this site. There are several forums on the internet, filled with people who can tell you the truth about the “Truth.” I hope you will continue your research and evidence gathering.

    There are many wounded people who visit here, and all deserve compassion.

    Thank you all for sharing your experiences. As has been said many times, it helps to know that we are not alone. This religion has infiltrated our family, and has now ripped my family in half.

    My feelings about this site (about jwsurvey) are of sheer gratitude. A lot of effort goes into managing a website like this one, and from my viewpoint, it seems that Cedars does a pretty good job at keeping the volume at a dull roar.

    I have never been a JW, but sincerely considered it. I have read some recent articles from their magazines, and their proclamations and claims are very dynamic indeed. Their warnings and instructions to the JW people, are alarming to an intelligent reader who is standing outside the tower, simply trying to promote peace within their own family.

  26. Excelsior! says:

    anonymous,

    I hope that you get your wish, dear lady. I shall do all I can to make it so.

    Peace be with you,

    Excelsior!

  27. Rowland Nelken says:

    The Pew Research Centre is staffed by professionals. Their JW survey confirmed the low level of education, the high level of dropouts and the relative instability of marriage within JWdom. http://freeminds.org/psych/pew_survey.htm

  28. Cedars says:

    RJ – “In the real world, there is not a statistics expert, mathematics scientist that would take value in Cedar’s survey from a scientific view let alone a logical one , so why would the JW’s hierarchy?”

    If the simple opportunity for current and Ex JWs to voice their opinion in a survey format doesn’t thrill you, you will be pleased to know that this website has attracted the interests of a University that will be partnering with us to gather meaningful data on shunning. More information will soon follow. Will you be helping us spread the word, so that as many as possible can take part and firm conclusions can be drawn, whatever those may be?

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