A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”
If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The limited number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. As our website steadily grows in popularity, the 2013 survey promises to attract even more attention.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
My name is Cedars. I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the founder of JWsurvey.org. I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart
Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to believe that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some measure of balance applied in implementing this scriptural admonition. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means. ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent application of the disfellowshipping doctrine.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also goes against the principle expressed by Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
It is for this very reason that I am forced to conceal my identity. I know that if my name were to be revealed openly, I would be separated from my family and loved ones for the rest of my life. Why? Simply for disagreeing with the Governing Body on certain issues, and no longer recognizing their self-proclaimed authority.
Only human
It is my earnest desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded spiritual brothers and sisters around the world who long to be able to worship in a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance towards other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of the worldwide brotherhood on a daily basis. I feel that is why this survey website is so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
Boa noite.
Nunca desista do seu trabalho.
Os cristãos primitivos eram humildes e sinceros.
Continue e revele as mentiras do ” corpo governante ” .
Obrigado.
WBTS are Criminals….
Some of the comments offered here are sounding like apostasy to me. I would not ever want to voice such opinions as the ones even by the founders of this website. I truly believe this is “Jehovah’s” organization and the fact He uses imperfect men does not make it any less His. When one speaks out against His earthly organization they are speaking out against His ability to make sure things are done properly. We must have faith that errors will be corrected and adjustments will be made. That does not make Jehovah’s teachings erroneous but merely a fact when men are used. We know His Holy Spirit is always prayed for and is a guiding force for all. Did you ask for His spirit when you decided to voice your opinion for all to see? Did you ask His guidance for the website you have created? You have given voice to apostates which we are never supposed to listen to. How does that make you feel? It makes me sick to even think about it. I am sure the “first” apostate is very happy. Thank you for the space but I really hope you will pray for Jehovah’s guidance and really think about what you are publishing. Some of it is shameful.
I’m sorry you feel that way. Is there anything I’ve written on this website that is demonstrably false? If so, please draw it to my attention and I will gladly look into it.
Well said! I agree with you!
In Jonestown they believed in Jim Jones as the ultimate spokesman for god so much until they were willing to die with him… Will you drink the kool aid if they ask you to?
A faithful Jehovah’s witness couple survive the battle of armaggedon.They notice that there is no survivors in the immidiate vicinity and are so happy to be alive in the new system that they start making love to each other. Just at that moment a faithful Jehovah’s witness who died is resurected.He hears some noise and a rustling behind the bushes and goes to investigate. “Thats not fair!” he shouts, “they make it through armaggedon alive and now they’re breeding like rabbits, and yet I died and was resurected and not only am I not supposed to have sex, I’m not even allowed to masturbate!”
I always thought that was unfair. Many JW’s are told to wait until the paradise to have children, and many who wait die before armaggedon and will never be able to marry and have children. The JW’s don’t believe resurrected ones will be allowed to have sex, but they teach that even if Abraham had sacrificed Isaac, Jehovah would have resurrected him to fullfill the prophecy of Isaac being the father of a great nation. How would that have been possible if he couldn’t have sex?
I have been raised in the truth [49 yrs old] and I was a faithful ‘Happy Witness of Jehovah also, for 35+ years until 2002 when I was chemically poisoned at the dry-cleaners I worked in and damaged the lining of my lungs. Because I now have severe chemical sensitivities and asthma [My throat & lungs close up during an attack]. I was now no longer able to walk into a Kingdom Hall, Assembly Hall, or go door-to-door without a severe attack. The elders of my congregation AND my own family members who were JW’s said I would be considered inactive and was told that if I couldn’t go to meetings or out in service that I would die at armeggeddon. I wrote the Governing Body at NY a letter and was told that there is nothing we can do, just do your best that you can. So now I get the phone tie-in from my local congregation. I can get my magazines thru the Society’s website. KM’s are a hit-and miss situation unless I stop at my bookstudy coordinator’s house and pick them up myself… But I get very limited contact with my brothers and sisters because of the stigma attached to a publisher who cannot go out in service or meetings. It’s been VERY diffcult emotionally because I know what the literature says about showing love for our brothers and sisters but I can see how my family & I have been treated for the past 10 yrs. So I know that most of the ‘Happy witnesses’ out there that would never say ANYTHING negative about the organization have NEVER had their faith tested to such extremes. So there may be some negative comments that sound like ‘apostasy’ but truth is truth!
In the time of ancient Israel the measure of keeping the nation clean of fornicators,adulterer of criminals,etc,etc. Under the Law, a wrongdoer deserving capital punishment usually was pelted to death with stones. (Le 20:2) This was to ‘clear out what was bad from their midst.’ All Israel would hear of the punishment, and fear of such wrongdoing would be instilled in their hearts. (De 13:5, 10, 11; 22:22-24) In stoning an evildoer, they showed that they were zealous for true worship, anxious to see that no reproach came upon God’s name, and desirous of maintaining a clean congregation.
Before a wrongdoer could be stoned, AT LEAST TWO WITNESSES had to give harmonious testimony against him, and thereafter they cast the first stones. (Le 24:14; De 17:6, 7) The prospect of being the executioner made a person think searchingly in giving evidence and doubtless was a deterrent to false testimony, which, if discovered, would cost the lying witness his own life.—De 19:18-20.
Unhappy witness. Unfortunately, your situation is no big surprise to me.There was an wheel-chair bound sister who had moved into a house less than 1/2 mile from our Kingdom Hall. Her husband was not a JW but would bring her to the meetings in a van. Our elders basically told her to scram, that she lived in territory assigned to another Kingdom Hall about 5 miles away and she needed to go there. She was devastated emotionally and cried. Imagine having to tell her unbelieving husband about the unwelcome the congregation gave her. There is not enough space here to get into specific quotes, but this kind of insensitivity is coming directly from content in the WT publications, as the publications are often held in higher esteem than the God’s Word itself. Keep up what you’re doing and remember, our ministry takes many forms. If you can, write a few letters to friends and relatives expressing your faith and report your time. Persons in your situation can report fractions of time. And keep writing the WT.
I relate to Candace Conti in a major way. I have a story of truth that would blow your mind. My real paternal grandmother was a Witness, when my grandfather died she and my Aunt and Uncles moved in with our family. They were all grown and able to care for themselves. My grandmother was very active in the Organization (which they like to call themselves) until her death. She sat and did nothing while her son raped and tortured my two oldest sisters. This went on for so long that my sister finally got pregnant by my uncle and left. This started when my sisters were 10 or 11 years old. My grandmother, father and all of my aunts and uncles knew what was going on in our house, but no one cared. My grandmother and father moved us to Vidor, Tx. when I was 5 years old. Little did I know that my father had communications on paper showing that we girls were for SALE. Yes, for sale pictures were taken, so that people could see what they were bidding on. The bites came, but they were for every child but me. I was settled on and adoption came, along with depression. No one ever sat down and told me that I had a new mother and father. The new mother had a daughter by a previous marriage who was 13 and hated me. She told me to never touch her, and so I caught on real fast. My parents had left the house one day and two men came to our house and picked me up screaming and kicking all the way out to the car. I was put in the car and told to shut up. The neighbor remembered it 30 years later. He said it haunted him like a ghost. So I spent months on a swing in the front yard, waiting for my real mother and father to come and get me. My new father didn’t take long at all to start straightening me up. I would have to do stupid things like walk in high heels along the fence line all day so that (as he said) I could learn to walk straight. I was given a bible and assigned scriptures at the age of six so that I could learn to read (with no help) If I couldn’t do it, I got a horrible switching when he got home. When I started first grade I could read and write. Self taught, along with a lot of whippings. By the time I was 8 I wanted any other woman to be my mother, except the one I had. Little did I know that the arguments between the husband and wife stemmed from resentment that she had built up over him molesting her daughter. I learned this years later. Over the course of 13 years, I was mentally, physically and sexually abused. When I was 19 I left. I have suffered from a lot of abuse in my life because when you are raised with it, it is very hard to teach yourself how to change it. The mental damage was never corrected. I have been under the care of a psychiatrist for many years and I take medication. My nerves are so bad that even though I was a secretary for years, it is very hard for me to type and I have to correct a lot. I am 58 years old and I can hardly function. I cry all the time. Someone told me that I should try to see the happy side of life and my reply was:”I don’t know how to be happy, I was never taught happy. My Dr. informed me last week that, I was going to die because I take the largest dose of medication that my body can stand. I was molested by my new father from the ages of 10 to 12. I told his wife, she called the other elders in the Congregation (YES, he was an elder) and he was forgiven because he was repentant. He admitted doing it and he was forgiven. When I left home, they moved, after they told everyone that they had kicked me out because I was in love with him and I wanted him to divorce her and marry him. This was done to destroy my credibility, so that if I ever told anyone what went on in our house, I would not be believed. I was allowed one friend who was 10 years older than me and she was told that I lied a lot. After each visit with her my mother would ask her what we talked about and if I said anything out of line? I lost everyone I had ever known growing up when I chose to leave Jehovah’s Witnesses. When they moved they told everyone in their new congregation that they had no children. 35 years later when I come walking in to bury the man, people actually told me that they did not know that these people had any children. One woman said, they raised us children, and I want you to know that you were a very lucky child to have them as your parents. I was dumb-founded. Lost for words, I remained quiet. Another woman hugged me and thanked me for taking care of the funeral arrangements financially, because they could not afford to take care of it. Again I had no reply. Who thanks a child in their 50′s for taking care of their parents burial? Everything in the will was left to The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Brooklyn NY. I will look at the settlement for Candace as a success in the settlement of my parents estate. My daughter found my real family in 2010. It has proven to be very unsettling for me. I can honestly say that I LOVE unconditionally, my children and grandchildren, and God. If anyone ever lays a hand on them they will be answering to God personally. Like the saying goes: “Hell hath no wrath like a woman who has been scorned.” Or as I say: ” Life stinks and then we die.” Where is the justice?
God Bless you Sir. I will pray for you. I hope your family form the Kingdom Hall realise they have a duty of care towards you. Draw close to Our Saviour he is right there near to you. Ask and you will receive.
love your Brother in Christ
Phillip
I stand with you in spirit, Cedars. One may leave a legitimate religion and not fear losing one’s family connections. When one leaves a cult, that cult does everything in its power to ruin the one leaving, even seperating one from one’s family. Having been raised as a JW, this much I have learned: Being raised in a cult is like being raised in a snake pit. In my opinion, the Watchtower Society has become a spiritual police state. I have learned that people only pay attention to what they discover for themselves. Nothing that I might do or say will change the outcome of things.
The Society itself says, “The Truth can never be Apostasy” but since when do they care much what they themselves write? And there are No Excuses or Allowances for Disabilities in that organization as you found out the hard way! If they can’t see it? It ain’t there!
Let hope the wt is on it way out over Candace
Con> hope her lots money she is wins over wt let as now .martin I came out wt 2002
It really is a shame. I have been serving for some 35+ years, (I no longer associate)which included being an Elder and Congregation Secretary,and many other positions, as you would get these because of who you are, and have met some really decent and committed Christians in the organisation. And yet I found very little love among them. They seemed to be almost scared of the People around them in particular the Elders. And the various Cliques and innuendos, as well as the gossips that keep apart and destroy the very thing that should unite. “You will know them because there is Love among them”…
Well I found very little, to the point that due to my wife who was not a witness, I had not one call ever to my House in that time, other then to question certain actions that I took based on scripture, such as regularly “calling on the flock”.
What really upset me was the way that the governing Body demanded all sorts of behavior, while the Bible clearly said that Jehovah looks favorably on those contributions given freely of ones own accord. These would be acceptable in Gods sight.
And yet it was amazing the amount of “you have to do…
The other point I would like to share is the one of dates.
Now that I think about it, this format is possibly incorrect/insufficient, as I would need much more space, as there are so many inconsistencies which would show just how far they are removed from reality.
with christian Love
Roger
Isn’t it wonderful the way truth will infiltrate even the most close minded and blind followers who really want to know truth.The Holy Spirit is in the world searching for those who will come to the True Light of the world,Jesus Christ.Without Him,all walk in darkness.He is worthy of our praise as witnesses of the true God.I do my best to follow the teachings of the Bible,especially where it instructs me on who to worship.For example: NWT of the Christian Greek Scriptures,1950 edition @ Hebrews 1:6,”But when he again brings his firstborn into the inhabited earth,he says:”And let all God’s angels worship him”.I thank God that he has allowed such a wonderfully accurate and perfect translation to be manufactured,aren’t you? I mean,after all,if it’s O.K. for the angels to worship Jesus,then we should be able too also,right?
I was also struggling with the idea of the Holy Spirit being an impersonal “Active Force” rather than Him having the attributes of a person when I stumbled onto II Cor.3:17 in the NWT,where it plainly says,”Now Jehovah is the (Holy) Spirit”.I no longer struggle understanding that the Holy Spirit is indeed a person,He is God Almighty,because according to this verse,He is Jehovah! Praise His wonderful name! I certainly do not understand though how this verse could be referring to any other Spirit as Jehovah,Because Jehovah is Holy isn’t He? And if Jehovah is Spirit as Jesus said He was in John 4:24,what other Spirit could Jesus be referring to than the Holy Spirit? If Jehovah is Holy,and He is Spirit,then logically thinking,He must be the Holy Spirit,right? Of course,that the same conclusion I came to! I’m so glad there are others who see that the Watchtower has been in error about so many different things.It’s truly refreshing that there are others who have decided to think on their own when it comes to some of the Junk that the GB dishes out.Keep up the good fight of faith and continue to expose error for what it is!……….thank you,John.
Um irmão anônimo, uma Testemunha de Jeová/TDS, indicou-me seu site hoje. vim ver e lê-lo. Adicionei-o aos meus favoritos e, de tempos em tempos, virei aqui ver o andamento do trabalho cristão do irmão.
Força e que o “espírito dos Deuses santos” continue a iluminar o irmão. – Daniel 4:8, 18.
amor cristão desde São Paulo/Brasil.
Apóstolo Testemunha dos Deuses Santos
I feel so bad for you. But I’m surprised it has taken this long for you to see how JW’s REALLY are. It’s all so fake and phony. Once you’re in, then you’re not the shiny new toy anymore and if you don’t find a click, well, you’re alone, even if you’re surrounded by 300 JW’s. Time to get out dude! Really, run for your life…or walk really slow, but just get out! Wish you the best from Cali USA
Cedars, I don’t believe Happy Jehovah’s Witness can show anything false in what you state on this website. You have presented the ultimate “conversation stopper”. Happy Jehovah’s Witness undoubtedly has not and probably will never be taught by the GB how to deal with facts when presented in the field service.
Hey. I would like to let you know that people like you dont make it any better for people like jw’s. They already have enougfh trouble as it is going out and getting yelled at, constantly offended by opposers and even picked on by people who were “friends”up until the moment they corner them with abusive talk about their own religion to their faces… Religion isnt about people who praise hallelujah to a god they dont even know let alone even read or know the bible… It is about being kind, reading and knowing the bible so well, you practically know most common verses, being friendly to all (including those who oppose you), and believeing and having faith in your religion. And from my view point thats exactly what Jw’s do, compared to most other people who claim to be apart of a religion, when all their money is just going into the so called “priests” etc and their lives and dedication to churches is toward some really fake religions… Not saying there is a right or wrong religion here of course. Just saying- religion is a delicate matter. And if Jw’s are a religion (which they are not a cult. They truly are a religion), they should not be abused by so many and constantly be singled out as a “cult” or a “sect”. They are indeed more a religion than any other ive seen… I guess thats up to you to make sure you guys make the right decision. And im guessing this website was set up because some jw offended you or was too over the top or broke your heart or even you may have been a jw once… But truly… If you think making a website picking on other people and their beliefs makes you any better a person… I would reconsider… And i hope you actually read this and think long and hard… This isnt a threat… Its a conversation from one ordinary person to another…
Thankyou sincerely,
Random. (i would be obliged to tell you my name but i dont want any stalkers or anything following me cause frankly, thats an invasion of privacy).
‘Picking on other religions’ eh Random? WHat do JWs do except declare that all other self declared CHristians are ensnared by the Devil and deserve an imminent divine murder at Armageddon? Most people I know who come across JWs only as door knockers, actually admire their earnest devotion. It is we ex JWs, who have experienced the horrors of your cult from the inside, that know the truth about JW TRUTH. Your posts, Random, are, of course, valuable in the global campaign to destroy the WBTS. Any curious reader will see the dreadful state of mind of one whose mind and life are totally dominated by JW indoctrination. Keep up the good work Random. In our separate ways we will help to rid the world of this JW scourge!
I came across this site a few weeks back and though about just ignoring it as the founder and sponsor seem to at least express things which are similar to other anti- Jehovah`s witness sites – but decided on my own initiative to express a few concerns.
1 – I do question whether the owner of this site is in fact one of us?? due to the nature and manner of the disagreement expressed on this site.
2 – The organisation is unique in that it is the only one that does ever thing that is only based on the bible – so it is not influenced my man or preference`s or personal choices based on back ground or culture for example; it only goes be the bible and the principles in the bible.
3 – the governing body in making its final decision on matters do delegate and intrust a lot of responsibilities to branch committee`s – all the way down to the appointed elders in the congregation – that means that when a decision is made, lets say in the case for a miner to be diss fellowship; there are a few things straight away – depending on the age of the child its parents are informed and a discussion takes please with the judicial committee as to how best help that child to make its way back – please note these suggestions are done in consultation with the parents – in addition there are not strict guidance – a resent update on the process that elders much follow before reaching that stage if they decide to do so – in addition the child or teenage has the opportunity to appeal against the there decision that the elders locally make. The appeal committee makes an independent decision based on the truth in the case – & if they cannot make a decision then the branch in that country look into the case and a decision is then made – if at that stage the decision is to go for the serious discipline to diss-fellowship then a review on that decision much be done on a yearly based by the original judicial committee, if not sooner- the spirit and attitude is to all way help the erring one to come to there senses and yes this is the over riding point to show and give clear evidence that he / she is repentant & secondly to maintain cleanness in the congregation –
4 – if that child / teenager is at home what this all happens then the parents are with out question still responsible for the physical care of this child – it is so by the law of any land and it is also fully expected by the organisation – if for some reason the teenager decided to go leave by mutual consent be all concerned then that is not done by the influence or decision by the organisation & its governing body –
so what can I say in conclusion on this matter? its this – we must all be loyal to Jehovah & his organization at all times as Jehovah`s dedicated witnesses – remember Jehovah is over all in charge and he as delegated authority to his son Jesus Christ who in turn has the Elders in his right hand of authority who are refereed to has stars. must full trust and wait on him knowing that any errors and wrongs will be set straight by our loving and caring father Jehovah who does all things for the sake of his people – I suggest that this site just like many others will in time become a irrelevance, and gods people will only go from strength to strength.
Thanks James for your honest if rather programmed reaction to our site.
Your prediction is: “I suggest that this site just like many others will in time become a irrelevance”
I have about as much confidence in that prophecy as I have in this one…
“[Jehovah's Witnesses] believe that… some who saw the events of 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world” – Reasoning book, page 200.
Cedars
The Aborigines (and I love them for it) have been around over 80000 years: before a bunch of goat herders in a Middle Eastern GPS unavailable to them decided the world of humans must sit up and take note. It was not surprising therefore that it took until about 3 centuries ago for them to even hear about this. Maybe this had something to do with Jewish circumcision? Shrug! You see the Aborigines split the penis from behind the tip right down to the groin area and let it heal into some broccoli looking expression of genitalia that enabled them to use reeds to control conception. Even if the Jews had ventured there, such comparable macho practices would hardly stack up against these raw hard natives – best leave these alone and stick to our less conspicuous “Snick for Yaweh.”
You can, no doubt see the comparative appeal right there?
So why then, I ask you all, are we so vehemently credulous to fall for a smalltime goat herders philosophy, from a time before refrigerators and anaesthetics, as if it applied to the whole world and every human therein from before and beyond space time as we know it? How can we grant plausibility to an idea that an all powerful mind, for reasons undescribed and left to our suspicions, decided to give these snippets of rulings and regulations to certain humans in certain places in the hope that somehow others , down the millennia, would be equal in falling for its preposterous claims to have rights over all of us?
And why should we tolerate such a manifestly intolerant preposition upon all humanity???
Books, Videos, Facebook pages, blogs and websites exposing the house of lies and horrors that is the WBTS are proliferating; ditto the number of impending court cases connected with JW pedophile protection. The WBTS, meanwhile (which you, James Yehat, with pathetic credulity describe as ‘God’s Organisation’) has stalled in its expansion and is likely soon to diminish. The internet, with its interactive, as opposed to top down, communication, is the enemy of dictatorships everywhere, and the JW bosses are incapable of handling it. They have labelled ‘apostates’ as mentally diseased. Having failed to steer their followers away from the internet and possible infection with heresy (i.e real facts about the JW cult), they are now making efforts to engage with the internet via an improved website. This will be ineffectual; no feedback will be admitted which does other than glorify the outfit that produces it. I suggest, James Yehat, you prepare yourself for the implosion of your poisonous cult, and for re – engagement with the world that you have pretended you are no part of. The ugly little corner of the world that has always pretended it is no part of the world, i.e the JW org. will, we hope, soon be merely a grubby little footnote in the history of Christendom.
James Yehat, and other believing JWs or sympathisers; have you ever stopped to consider why there are so many anti JW websites and Facebook pages? This does not happen with other sects, denominations or even with every cult. I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness, and it was, by far, the worst aspect of my childhood. I actually believed JW TRUTH, as spouted by the Elders at my UK Kingdom Hall in the 1950s. Jehovah, back then according to the JWs, was set to murder the greater part of the human race before the end of the 20th century; and why? because the greater part of the human race did not attend the Kingdom Hall and spend their spare time and money on buying and distributing WBTS lit. door to door.
Can any of you believing JWs tell me what the WBTS has achieved beyond the following:
1. Inducing nightmares about a mythical Armageddon.
2. Making an unevidenced claim that its bosses, the Gov. Bod., are the ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24.
3.Causing the deaths of thousands through their ever changing blood transfusion edicts.
4. Causing the splitting of families through their shunning directives.
5. Protecting paedophiles through their 2 witness rule.
6. Making a series of duff prophecies about the advent of Armageddon. (1925, 1941, 1975 and before the death of the 1914 generation are but a selection)
7. Furnishing Judge Rutherford with a luxury mansion (Beth Sarim) and a brace of Cadillacs.
8. Covering up the Masonic origins of the cult when Russell founded his Bible students.
9. Depriving millions of a decent education by declaring any skills beyond the ability to read JW lit., and spout JW doctrine door to door, to be ‘worldly’.
10. Amassing a vast property portfolio in Brooklyn and around the world.
I would be interested to hear of any other achievements, but having read the history of the cult by many authors (including the WBTS ‘Proclaimers’ book) I have never come across any others.
if you were in a congregation where I live this would not happen. You could learn sign language and participate more fully.
Devon
to:Rowland Nelken,
☻
I have been a witness all my life
I want to serve God
the correct way.
The only thing that JW’S have gotten wrong are DATES-☺
They are organized to preach the Good News
i have learned that
God is not a trinity
God does not torment people for ever
God has a name just like everyone else JEHOVAH
The soul is not immortal
JW’S don’t fight wars
The dates set are not PROPHECY FROM THE GOV BOD.
JW’S believe that after the bible was written there is no need for prophecy
Those are the Pentecostals that hear words of knowledge and alike, but since they don’t publish a mag 42 million per mag, no one knows just the people in the church.
So when someone speaks of JW AND PROPHETIC DATES, not true.
So, Peter,, if Armageddon dates are the only thing that JWs have got wrong, then the JWs must be right about the following:
1. Armageddon can be calculated by taking measurements from the Great Pyramid.
2. The Crucifix is an appropriate Christian symbol.
3. The Crucifix is not a Christian symbol.
4. Jehovah has no opinion on blood transfusions.
5. Jehovah forbids blood transfusions.
6. Jehovah is OK with blood transfusions so long as the blood is delivered in fractions.
7. Jehovah approves of celebrating Christmas on 25 December.
8.Jehovah forbids celebrating Christmas on 25 December.
9. True Christians will be raptured at Armageddon.
10 True Christians will not be raptured at Armageddon.
11. Membership of the anointed is restricted to JWs baptised before 1914.
12. Membership of the anointed is restricted to JWs baptised before 1935.
13. There is no restriction, datewise, on membership of the annointed.
No doubt JWs can claim to have been right about many more things than the 13 foregoing. I wonder why not everybody accepts that JWs have THE TRUTH?
There is nothing malicious or weak about your life situation respecting any cosmic mind. No force or power has duty upon you to exert more than you happily are able to desire to do.
I used to be a Jehovah’s Witness! The concept of apostasy is: an abuse upon the human mind: a degenerate subversion of thinking per se , and an exploitation of the individual to free think their own life course ( as many, throughout the history of humanity, have happily done for a lifetime; unhindered by any mention of scripture or deferral to some other persons claim to know of a cosmic mind looking on.)
Credulity is the enemy of happiness and the slayer of reason. It is a poison to the soul.
It’s why I’m aniti theist, not just atheist. And I state this, not against humans per se, but against ALL the philosophies that are permitted access to, and usually to poison beyond reform, the amygdala of unsuspecting humans in every generation.
Yes, I utterly detest that which dresses faith as a virtue when in truth it is the most carnal of all desires to have inflicted upon any virgin mind!
Best wishes to you, long sufferer of life on Earth!
Are you CURRENTLY a Witness Cedars? Answer these questions for me: What is so BAD about the organization and what it teaches? what would you do differently? It really saddens me that God practically BEGS humans to obey his commandments and live by his standards and finally, this organization does just that and of COURSE, some one (in this case Cesars) finds fault in it and tries to nit pick and find imaginary grievances…. smh @ Cesar. Makes me wonder what has happened to make you feel this way? Were you counselled for misconduct? Did you not get a position that you felt entitled to? What happened? So OK. Lets say you succeed (which is HIGHLY unlikely) in bringing the Watchtower DOWN…. Then what? You will start a religious named the Cedarslites? What’s next? Just remember brother “Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.”
“Are you CURRENTLY a Witness Cedars?” Yes, I am neither disfellowshipped nor disassociated – I am merely inactive.
“What is so BAD about the organization and what it teaches?” In short, it is a cult. A cult is any organization, religious or otherwise, where the teachings or instructions are potentially damaging to those who join. In the case of JWs, you have shunning of disfellowshipped family members (unscripturally), protection of pedophiles (failure to observe their crime if there is no witness), and encouragement to decline medical treatment with blood (even though the bible has nothing to say about blood transfusions). You also have 8 men leading the organization claiming to be guided by God with no objective evidence to support this claim. If all of that doesn’t raise any “warning flags” with you, go right ahead and get baptized.
“what would you do differently?” I would disband the organization.
“Makes me wonder what has happened to make you feel this way? Were you counselled for misconduct?” I woke up, as simple as that. I decided that the reasons why this COULDN’T be God’s organization were simply too many to ignore, and I decided there was therefore nothing stopping me from disobeying the Society’s instructions by doing objective research. I read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz, and it blew me away – the fact that this is just a human organization after all. I would recommend you read that book too. Here is the link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/20333975/Crisis-of-Conscience-2004-Unencrypted
“Did you not get a position that you felt entitled to? What happened?” Title or position had nothing to do with it. I was once an elder but stood down. Prior to my “awakening” it was made very clear to me that I could be an elder again if I put forth the slightest effort. I decided that I didn’t WANT to be an elder if I could see so many things wrong with the organization from the top down.
“You will start a religious named the Cedarslites? What’s next?” I have no interest in acquiring followers or starting any religion. I am only interested in helping people out of a damaging cult. If you really want to know my religious viewpoint, please read my article: http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/is-jwsurvey-org-an-apostate-website
I hope that answers your questions.
Cedars
well said
Rowland,
The pyramid? that was how long ago?
dis JW teach about a pyramid?
do the research
Science also thought many things that have changed
Do you say the same about science, the number of planets changed, are we going to dismiss science because it changes according to what it learns?
The mayoralty of what you have mentioned are dates,
just like i said.
¿What have JW gotten wright?
¿any takers on that SUBJECT?
I wont list them here because i will be told i am issuing WT PROPAGANDA.
No Peter. You won’t list what JWs have got right because there is nothing to list. Unlike your attitude to me, I do not think you deserve an Armageddon death penalty for differing in your views and behaviour from me. You, however, have been drilled by your Brooklyn bosses to believe that I face an imminent and deserved divine murder for my failure to be unpaid mag. distributor for a global publishing and property corporation. I hope that one day you will escape the clutches of the cruel cult that dominates your existence. It may well be that the WBTS will face an avalanche of court cases in the coming years for its criminal protection of pedophiles in its ranks. It hides, as you may know, behind the Deuteronomy based 2 witness rule, in defiance of the law in every land where it operates. COurt cases will mean fines, enormous fines that your mag. purchases and unpaid labour, Peter, will not be able to meet. When property is sold, including, maybe, your own Kingdom Hall, what will you do? If you can’t generate cash for the WBTS, the WBTS will discard you. The ENd is nigh, Peter, for your misery making cult. I suggest you prepare yourself.
Apostasy is a misnomer! How can one know this? From the basic assertion that ones belief is unquestionable – else apostasy – amidst thousands of beliefs humans have posited such a claim about down the ages.
Hence the very concept of apostasy is clandestine tribalism snook in to appear more sophisticated as if some cosmic authority sanctioned this as claimed by who else but, you guessed it, long dead humans.
The fact that many virgin births and 12 disciples leaders, resurrection after 3 days… plus a raft of other similarities, predated Yeshua (Jesus) by thousands of years hardly disguises the fact that ALL of these were still only limited to a small fraction of the geographical Earth as we now know it. What it strikingly illustrates is the massive credulity any human mind is all too easily polluted by when limited to age old myth and fiction as if universal truth. The amygdala makes too soon an emotive bonding therein which becomes increasingly painful to contemplate the cessation of!
Hence “faith” : the misapplication of deep emotional bondings to fictional information supplied as universal knowledge.
In light of the above, apostasy becomes the liberation and disclaimer of the fiction by which one was initially deceived and deluded (emotionally hijacked).
I got baptise at 12…back in 1972. I stop going to the meetings because I did not see anything wroung with wearing a beard ,as long as it was neat and trim and clean. I was told by my brother the elder , that was not right to do. I needed to shave or suffer . because to properly represent Jehovah you must be clean shaved, or look like a worldly person. And not be look at as a productive wittness. Are you kidding me! I told him if Jehovah wanted me to shave ,why allow me to grow facial hair to begin with. Or any man . I dont think any man has that right to choose for you, even though some work places makes that policy for various reasons. Not sure why people thinks a clean face is honest and noble. I still have a problem with that. Along with beliving 1975 was dooms day. I elected to take my education for granted, since there was no need for it. After all thats what worldly people cared about not Jehovahs people. We got our education at the meetings, what really counts in life. I paid for that dearly to this day. I even recived several scolarships that my Mother turn down,cause we at that time was told not to go to college..to worldly and not needed,cause the new order was near. PLease!!! 1975 came and went,and so did I. There was also a relative of mine that was rape at the age of 12 by her stepfather .He was a ms . She got pregnant ,but was to young to carry the child. The elders never reported it, but her mother did devorce him. And he was disfellowship but reistated and remarried in the “truth” as its put. Never did a day in jail. Also shortly after that another brother in the same hall molested four girls ,ages13-15. when one of the girls told on him, He left town about 50 miles away with his wife, yes she stayed with him. he did the same thing in the new hall he went to with another lil girl. Not a day in jail, no prosecution even after repeating the samr crime. Today hes still giving public talks on Sundays. His wife still with him. He was never able to look me in the eyes after I found out. Nor did i forgive him. I wanted the family to prosecute him, and send him to jail. Of course they look at me as worldly, and that was not going to happen. the second time he got caught did not matter to them or the child he molested. WOW! And i call that my family. That family member is 40 now and still have nightmares, and no closure. Im 53 and now trying to find a true religion…There’s not any. So i depend of the bible and what it ask of me as a person to do to have favor with my creator and savior. I did go back to the hall I was raised in At 51. They treated me as if they hated that my life was good and my house was paid for…no probems living a worldly life, nice car, my own fitness club. Most of all they still was saying that same line….dont worry about having a good life here ..wait for the new order. I did confess my sins to the elders and was made an active member along with my kids joining the school for a year….but i made a mistake by reporting an elder that was selling predatory loans to the brothers, making up to 14000.00 dollars on prime lending per house as a brooker. All those who who went for the scam cause they had bad credit lost thier homes within 5 years. the elder was the presiding overseer. when they found out i was causeing a problem, they reopened my comfession case from a yeay ago ,stateing they did not form a judicial committe..they only meet with me with two elders , not three…i told them you said i was forgiven by Jehovah so you said,so whats the point of doing this again. they did it anyway and put me on restriction again. for the same sin i was forgiven for a year ago.whats the point? All seven elders knew the first decession and agreed all I had to do was to have a study with an elder in the what dose the bible teach and another book to catch up with the new light. I never return after that meeting to the hall. they came by house and said they saw a big inprovement in me after 30 days. Dispite not seeing me at the hall. and lifted the restriction. But they say they are being lead by holy spirt….yea ,and so Im I. I never went back. An elder call me and ask my problem…i said in a nut shell < that you dont need new light to report a serious crime as rape…you must and let police decide what to do. And you cant change a disipline so one that has not brought reproch on jehovah people. i never claim to be a jw my whole adult life , but have to pay to the congregation for what? He did not even have the details of all the rapes that has occured because the world want to presucute the wittnesses because of who they are..I said really..I guess PenN State is also a vitim, withholding info..A lot of people paid for that who knew …. the GB along with there followers knew too.. so welcome to the real world….Religion is a snare.. and you must be yourguide to Jesus not as a group. no one is judge or can be by a man…so they need to back off and just deliver the message. They think there elite because a man told them, he was a what..a prophet with money and a dream,and able to change the bible text and make false claims to dictate fear in people. Follow a fool, and you will bcome one. our bible is not accurate and need s a proper update by a real greek scholar. Not Barber&Russell.
What just amazes me is how people can pass judgement on others, make vast sweeping statements and make out that they know best. This isn’t just based on this page, but other pages I’ve read on this website. While you’re at it why not just say all black people are criminals, all asians are rapists and all white people molest their children. If someone has a faith, no matter what it is, allow them to do so. Just like people put their faith in clearly corrupt governments, some people look to a god or gods to help them through. I am not promoting cults or religions that encourage things are clearly legally, morally and ethically wrong. But do you not see the world that we live in? Are you completely blind to the atrocities that go around the world and even in your own town? Are you one of these people that because of Al-Qaeda now look at any Asian wearing a turban and label them as a terrorist, not even knowing what religion they belong to? No doubt many Witnesses have done wrong, perhaps they don’t even believe in Jehovah and want to make others think all Witnesses are like that. Is that not what Al-Qaeda have managed to achieve on a vast scale? There is still a huge amount of racism and prejudice in this world and it is sickening. It disgusts me, not because I am a Jehovah’s Witness, but because I am human. People seem to find nothing better than to highlight the negatives of everything. All the news is just propaganda; newspapers don’t sell when they write about happiness and success. Failure, murderers, extremists, death, devastation among other negative things sells. Things that scare people and about other people. This only leads to more prejudice and discrimination. People are so narrow minded that they believe whatever they read and whatever they hear.
Why not think for yourselves? Why do you take everything on face value? Why not question what is being told to you? Why not be different rather than follow the crowd? From what I know JWs are told to question everything and not blindly believe what they are told. So if after they question it and they want to believe in a god called Jehovah, leave them to it. There are clearly many of you who don’t question, don’t look at both sides and just believe in any hype. You get on the hate bandwagon and ride it all the way along. Yes we have freedom of speech, but why use it to hate others? You think JWs have been brainwashed? You make me laugh. Have a good look in the mirror and consider yourselves. You are brainwashed by governments, by news, by media, by advertisements, by your family, by your peers. Everyone has an opinion and they all want you to believe it. But it is your choice what you want to believe. Get some compassion, get some humanity and stop believing in everything you hear/read. Some people do wrong, a lot of people do wrong, but I’m sure that you would not wanted to tarred with the same brush as other people, so don’t do it others. You should think about improving your own life, bettering yourself, rather than being petty and focusing on the flaws of others. Trust me, you have a heck of lot of flaws that people could write a bible about.
Hello “Amazed”
Since we are speaking candidly, you should know that there are a number of people who are “amazed” at your outlook. In fact, there is an entire discussion thread about your comment on this link: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/245433/1/Apostates-are-narrow-minded-victims-of-brainwashing-who-believe-everything-they-read Feel free to set up a forum account and get involved in answering people’s reactions to your statements on that website. I personally have no time to debate with you, not least because you don’t really seem interested in debate – only attack.
I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for deleting your comment and banning you from this website with such rapidity. On reflection, as others have reminded me, it is always better for people visiting this website to see for themselves how blinkered and accusatory Watchtower apologists can be. You provide a stunning example in this regard.
Thank you for contributing to this website, despite being told not to. I hope you wake up and smell the coffee at some point, but I won’t hold my breath.
Cedars
Several commentators on here have complained about the very idea of a website which criticizes, or even challenges, the beliefs and practices of Jehovah’s WItnesses. This is absurd. Jehovah’s Witnesses, by definition, believe that all of us outside their organisation, deserve an Armageddon death penalty for refusing to believe and act as they do. Jehovah’s WItnesses are the epitome of self righteous arrogance. Their bosses achievements, over the decades, have been uniformly destructive and negative, where they have not been criminal or even murderous. I refer to pedophile protection and the blood transfusion ban when I write of crimes. We who have known the organisation from within, have a moral duty to expose this foul cult, warn the curious who may be tempted to join it, and, ultimately, to bring about the cult’s destruction.
No Peter- I did not mention dates. That a JW TRUTH is long ago does not alter the fact that, coming from a JW boss, it had to be accepted as God given TRUTH, or the doubter would face Armageddon destruction. What about the flip flops on blood, Christmas and the crucifix? The only reason that you, Peter, or anyone else can remain a Jehovah’s WItness is by burying your head in the sand and ignoring facts.
JWs presume that all who are not of their number deserve the death penalty. A cult which does nothing but slag off the rest of humanity and looks forward to the day when its mythical obscene Jehovah creation murders the greater part of humanity, deserves nothing but exposure. It invites a campaign for its destruction. Unlike JWs, who look forward to my murder, I do not wish a violent death on individual JWs. I simply wish them release from the control of a bunch of self righteous old farts in Brooklyn (The WBTS Gov. Bod.)who have captured their minds and lives.
It always amazes me that current JW’s can never accept the fact that anyone would leave the organization with their integrity intact. Whereas the opposite is true in many cases and this self-righteous attitude comes across as the height of arrogance. I feel sad for them as I did all my wasted years truly believing what I was doing was correct.
I left decades before the cognitive dissonance relented and I finally stopped having sympathy and subservience to various residual forms of their intellectual and emotional garbage. I will not forget the ones who got me in who were several generations into this organisation , or the humungous lies they pedaled to me which, became apparent down the line. It became incredibly obvious many are in it and don’t believe it all, yet will back stab you at a word wrongly out of place that breaches their code of totalitarian passivity they insist everyone adheres to. I detest their doctrine, in full! I will not forgive those who misled me into it and knowingly exploited whatever they could to maintain their long line of effluent. This is the only nostalgia I have of them and theirs – a sewer with a lasting stench! Good riddance to your whole system and I state it plainly, you are a parasite on all good people everywhere, not least those you mislead into your ranks to masquerade your oppressive, repressive delusional as if representative of good people. This is your cunning – trick some good folks into line and they will do the rest of your dirty work. Scumovahs Witnesses is the residue you prevail upon the unsuspecting mind! You cannot fathom how detestable your thinking is to me. Humanity would do well to be free of it! To poison the free mind into your dross is anathema to the very existence of humanity!
Emma;
Where in the bible does it say that im supposed to follow after man or an organization??? God doesnt beg anyone to follow him…he stands at the door and knocks…and if you let him in than…no begging….Jesus Christ died on the cross for those that would believe….Jesus Christ is the WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE…no man or organization….Unfortunately the religion that you follow has brainwashed you into thinking that Jesus came back to the earth invisibly and picked Jehovah Witnesses, who werent even called that back when he supposedly came back. Its funny the Bible only speaks of two comings of Jesus Christ…the one that already happened when he was born of a virgin and the one that is to come…no invisibly but every man will see Him…Its time to wake up and crack open that Bible and start to see what is really being taught….You dont need a man or an organization to interpret the Bible for you….Remember Jesus left His Holy Spirit to be our Helper…not a man or an organization….The day of Pentecost is when The Holy Spirit was given to the apostles who believed….and that same gift is given to all that believe….I pray that your eyes will be opened..
This might be good if in the last 200 years humans had not realised that Aborigines had been isolated from most other land areas for over 70 thousand years before even the Jews arrived with their written codes etc and even the Egyptians were not quite cutting the stone yet. So its amazing to think humans lived for tens of thousands of years without a hint of any Abrahamic ideas running planet Earth. China is another unknown in all kinds of ways. We – over here in the western regions – have still got this idea our heritage has ruled Earth since some beginning or other when in fact most of the Earth never heard of it for most of Earths history. We won’t get into fossil records yet and how many millions of years ago that went the way of earthquakes and volcanos – just like Darwin in the Galapagos that were a relatively recently formed series of islands out of the sea that then evolved their own unique features due isolation from other species.
I too was brought up having it drilled into my amygdala that love is to be put in ideas of old that I had no way of checking out. It took me the next several decades to rid myself of emotional bondage to those early tricks of mind to amygdala shenanigans.
The humans brain has ways of doing this for life – as humans used to do with the idea everything went around the Earth due the sun across the sky by day. We are too easily swayed into thinking we see how it is. Worse however is to come when we are too easily swayed into loving such ideas. The amygdala does not easily give way to reasons in the same way a young child is reluctant to let go of Santa. It al seemed so magical after all….
Anyhow, I come not to bring bad news, or to cause you pain, though the Santa years do leave a bitter taste in the senses of many children: so worse still for adults when we start to see how very impossible it is that the whole of humanity down the ages were ever even aware of what we think everyone ought to think truth – as in many religious ideas.
It leaves us in a cheated barren phase wondering what on Earth to think or worse still to feel is the point of our life. This is no fun lesson for it is a deception put on the very core of our emotions. Realising most humans who ever lived never even had such beliefs as we are having is indeed a great shock to bear and worse still to rebuild a new world view out of. It took me a painful few years to do this and worse still the feeling I could never go back and relive life in the sensible ways I am now able to think apply to all humankind. No need for the religious ideas of men from an age long gone!!!
There is a guiltless place where it’s up to us to treat each other well and no one is looking on to see we do so. It’s just up to those of us who see it as the best way to live and no need to make up stories about why. Also to oppose those low life who couldn’t care a sausage about who suffers and who doesn’t. That’s about where it’s at. A good a place as I ever got to. It makes complete sense and no guilt, obligation and fear of some unknown someone else can browbeat me, or anyone else, with.
Keep a firm hold on your own mind for many will seek to take it from you – religion et al.
Science does not proclaim its findings as God given Truth. It is based on the principle that new evidence may overturn current assumptions. The WBTS is not. Its litany of flip flops are all introduced as absolute, Jehovah delivered, once and for all Truths, and doubters will be administered the Armageddon death penalty. The WBTS is a mental dictatorship or it is nothing. The internet, fortunately, makes life difficult for dictators of every stripe, and an internet search by any any doubting JW will soon reveal that JW TRUTH is an ever changing pack of lies based on the say so of a bunch of self appointed, self righteous old geezers in Brooklyn who make a totally unevidenced claim that they are ‘The Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as mentioned by Jesus in Matt. 24. On this outrageous claim the entire authority of the WBTS bosses is based. Peter; I have asked countless JWs for evidence to back up the ‘F and D Slave’ claim of the JW bosses. None has supplied any. The reason is simple; there is none. Do you have any?
What is amazing is how we have now got incredible ways to survey the skies and see how the Earth is but a minor planet going around a minor star to an extent both are undetectable on any picture of the universe. This is all good and interesting stuff! However the trouble with amygdala based information is that it resists all new findings and perspectives. For example; when we learn that the Bible itself is only a set of books that grew over many centuries in a relatively minor region of a fully inhabited globe – that carried on in totally different ways regardless – it begs the question as to what “belief” has ever been a universal “truth”. It takes not very long to see, in pure reason terms, that NEVER is the answer to this. Humans have been growing in knowledge and perspective over the millennia and as such cannot know any mind of any unknown suspect: their god!
What we do have is the residue of minds of people from far less educated and enlightened times still subduing our amygdala emotions (usually from very young) and so brainwashing our emotions with ideas we are supposed to preserve till death. Hence belief becomes not a truth per se but a perversion of brain function to be subservient to an early emotional deception. Like a bear in a cage, the longer this goes on the more the human loses all sense of alternative till their fright and flight senses defer to the cage of their pains and oppression – the only place they know and feel as familiar; the belief system they inherited or adopted.
The trouble then of course is that it is far trickier to make a new mind and emotional basis for life per se – even when the guilt obligation and fear of this imaginary god subsides. The space one is now in is quite daunting and new, uncertain and confusing. Such feelings are a cruelty on the escapee from indoctrination who have already suffered greatly the traumas of religious domination.
Learning how to learn and how to take control of ones own mind – fully – is no easy journey, but nevertheless a far greater integrity than that of the demands of our long dead ancestors and the messages they were dominated by back in their day absent all the information humans have since discovered and communicated to each other.
Great and informative post, Ray Owen. It sent me straight to Wikipedia and this new term ‘amygdala’. This deep retention of early years fears, a property, it appears, of this part of the brain, explains in part why it took me so long to purge my mind of the JW poison pumped in during my early years (c. 5 -14) at the Kingdom Hall. Those whose entire family are JWs and under pressure to not only get baptised, but to pioneer, must suffer far more from that cruel cult than I ever did. Sites like these provide JW victims not only with the opportunity of enlightenment about their selfish captors, the JW bosses, but also an insight into the tragic state of mind illustrated by the posts of JW true believers. They can only serve as a warning, either to steer clear of JWs, or, if already captured, to make for the Kingdom Hall exit.
Strength to strength eh? JW growth has stalled, and with a whole queue of victims of JW pedophiles, protected by the JW org. queueing up in the courts worldwide, it is likely that the coming years will see extensive draining of JW coffers and thus, Kingdom Hall closures. Who says that JWs are God’s organisation? WHere is the evidence that the old farts in Brooklyn, the WBTS Gov. Bod. are the ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as mentioned in MAtt. 24? I have asked countless JWs to produce evidence of this connection, and none has been able to. There is no evidence. The JW Gov. Bod. are the ‘F and D Slave’ for no other reason than that they say they are. Without other ‘evidence’ their entire authority collapses. The ENd is Nigh, guys; the end of a corrupt and damaging Adventist splinter of a cult.
Thanks RN!
Yeah, its good to know part of our brains are extra responsive to emotionally generated memory input and that unlike say in a science class where each new learned fact supersedes previous ones with enthusiasm, in the case of emotionally generated inputs to the brain, new information is less welcome and most likely to be dismissed with hostility.
In a crude sense it can be seen how religious cults hyper focus on these contexts of brain information by generating holistic models ( Complete stories/ scripture about the whole world and the future and whom is running things unseen) that keep the brain going around in emotionally regenerated circles. Basically the information they conspire and cherry pick (as have all Biblical entrants down the ages) propagates servility to another’s mind/s, rather than relying on itself (ones own mind) to sieve out what it wants and does not want. Hence it then becomes a fear and guilt based function TO USE ONES OWN MIND whenever one takes in information that may be scientifically exciting but which ridicules religious precedents. For this reason the religious hierarchy seek their own preservation and power via such anti truths as bringing out the archenemy Satan as responsible for scientific findings or in fact any general good independent use of the human mind (they demand an emotive response/ defense to what really is a very interesting part of being human – the ability to discover and pass on new findings and information about us and our existence). SO religions and its network of thinking per se will only tolerate information it is able to include and adapt to as if it were all part of their “ideology” – otherwise Satan or apostacy.
Hold that idea for a moment!
The idea that if someone says something that insults a world view, no matter how true real and fact based.
We are now in the territory of the sincere individual being oppressed and rejected due having found out or learned something worth knowing simply due the other persons amygdala networked emotions being willing to die before it will accept such information and ostracising the other person for not submitting to their emotional construct. Personality disorders function this way; making constant and unquestionable emotional demands just because they feel it!
In a way it’s hardly any wonder we have so many personality disordered humans when we consider how prolific the religious mind is amongst us along with the plethora of emotionally generated power hungry delusions (scripture and their interpretation of what it demands of us) they propagate for the sakes of the hierarchy who enjoy a slave owners popularity or affluence or both – usually lifelong fringe benefits of some form or other and often multi generational for their offspring et al. If you find a long suffering hero or icon that contradicts this conclusion – it’s usually an exploitative tactic for someone who is in the ranks just below or thereabouts. Like the music industry – the one making most of the money isn’t necessarily the one standing center stage.
Like the maestro of public speaking, Christopher Hitchen’s would often confirm, skepticism is a far more honest state of the human mind – than credulity; where one takes in information unfiltered like a child in a candy store, so eagerly that the later pains of realisation further inflict the mind and emotions with a trauma that it cannot nearly so easily retreat into vomiting.
Real believing JWs have yet to say anything meaningful in defence of their obscene little cult. Beyond protection of pedophiles, mastering the arts of cult mind control, amassing a vast property portfolio, making a false and utterly unevidenced claim about the JW bosses being the Faithful and Discreet Slave, causing unnecessary deaths through their murderous blood edicts, equipping their old boss, Rutherford with a mansion, Cadillacs and servants and steering millions away from a decent education, the WBTS has achieved nothing. Its record is a disgrace and an insult to humanity. And then there is its string of duff prophecies and countless unnecessary Armageddon nightmares and broken families through shunning. Well, JWs – what can you say in defence of your foul misery making little cult?
Your story is a fine collection of total confusion and mixed messages this religion screws around with your head about:
1) No law on Earth comes close to that of the JW org.
2) Earth laws are to be kowtowed to under the umbrella of JW org advice.
3) Never think for yourself – just try to work out an emotional and intellectual path through all the contradictory stuff you see going on – in other words act like a zombie and think like a zombie then get ready for some punishment when you get accused of being a zombie!
4)Goto 1.
Now for your information: I can see how your head and heart has been screwed with and then you are told to go for another ride on the same carousel.
The alternative is peculiar: Leave all the people you got to know and deal with the impossible task of finding new friends who already usually have their lifelong regular associates ( can’t be done effectively); Kowtow to stuff you despise and curry favour when you can from the friend you half-have and take the joy if it exists amongst the few you know well – but remember you can never be yourself with them or relax the rules that stop you doing so else you will be back in the JW zombie courts with brown nosed elders et al ( They just love the brown; yummy to them); Do like I did and surf beliefs per se going through; pagan beliefs, eastern ideas; panentheism etc. You will find some have a great simple philosophy like do as you will but harm none, however in reality humans are full of bullshit and are full of double binds where they think they know what you think and so have the right to expect you to prove them wrong for what they suspect (kinda brown nose to their own ass kinda thinking); Then there is atheism where I got to with a hint of Robert Anton Wilsons “Who is the master who makes the grass green (because to other creatures eyes it isn’t green at all etc).” and I find there that you are on your own for the most part because often there are still loads of religious brown nose heads in your neighbourhood who think atheism is a satan incarnate (now I know who I am and what I think; which always was a pretty good mix for others since I rarely hate someone lest they keep rattling my bones on a regular habit they have – but you still can’t escape all these brown nosed regulars sticking their brains where the sun don’t shine and expecting you to do a few routines for them and their endless suspicions).
My bottom line? All the writings of man through history that pretend to know a superior mind is riding some clouds in a place nearby can go and do one; I reserve my rights to say that I know as well as anyone who ever existed whether this mind communicated to me alone and in my own solitude absent me having ever read or seen a word from another polluting my perspective on this: claiming it wants this or that from everyone as unquestionable. Hence ANY scripture is as useless to me as yesterdays weather and all those who keep on talking about it are in the same historic place. To my mind it is for humans to agree to their own humanitarian rules and to know this is what they are and these are things that might be changed from time to time and not under some putrid threat of everlasting torment which usually corrupts a human mind with very unhealthy sufferings and also often unhealthy reactions to said sufferings for all involved.
I enjoyed you sharing part of your journey with us – thank you so much! I was once in some similar difficulty. Where I am now is not necessarily a better place but it is a place more free from brown noses and my own brain collecting its share ipso facto ( I think the American Psychiatry Association refers to this as catching fleas as when a personality disordered individual gives you some of their behaviours and woes etc). I’m sure many in ALL religions are a little like the bankers who simply invest their deceptions there for fringe benefits and in reality hide the fact they don’t believe a word of it or anything like as much as you do. I grew up amongst groups who functioned like that per se; always acting friendly to outsiders and shafting them as the opportunity arose. In this respect religion is an ideal shafting vehicle, so it’s little wonder some who rise to the top are more exploitative than the sincere human can understand. If you have a mass of investors , how easy can it be to negotiate the ranks and get access to all the benefits one might desire? For those of us who spent years in the guilt and obligation mind frame it is unbelievable to learn than many never feel guilt and simply dish it out to control and manipulate others by rulings and double binds that they only kowtow to for the power it gives them. They are the ones who are judging personas and excuse all the stuff they indulge in by convincing themselves they atone for this by beating up on others – either unfairly or legitimate. PD individuals function in the same way and they really believe their own BS. This takes me back to what I said earlier: don’t quote scripture at me and not expect me to see brown all over your face!!!!!!!!!!! Some good advice the next time an elder brings out his New World Translation. I know you will be offended by this next point, though I intend none whatsoever; I NOW think and NOW feel in 100% of my psyche, of the Bible as of little value and predominantly as an outdated set of ideas of long dead men! I still hold the good treatment of each other as its only worthy message though that could be got from who we are per se. I once had no clue how I could ever lose the importance I held the Bible as – as if the only true book for all humanity. Here I am though as empirical world evidence taught me to first think differently and second to lose the painful emotional release/liberation from it all.
Best wishes to you my fellow human!
Several JWs have left their comments and, having failed utterly to defend their cult, have disappeared. This happens also on every Facebook page connected with JWs. What do they do when it must be clear to them that their cult and its pretensions are shown to be indefensible, and that they, (the Believing JWs) come to realise they are nothing more than pathetic dupes of a corrupt corporation which uses the threat of Armageddon annihilation in order to force yet more productivity from its unpaid labour force? Do they slink back to the Kingdom Hall and try to wipe out any doubts that their online encounters have generated? How do they square the lies and murderous inconsistencies of the organisation that has dominated their lives, with the notion that JWdom is the fount of Jehovah issued absolute TRUTH? Perhaps some JWs could explain this mystery, or maybe some recently emerged (or should I say ‘escaped’ or ‘released’ JWs) for whom the memory of this dilemma is sufficiently recent, could take us through how they dealt with the enlightenment and Kingdom Hall exit episode.
Amazing that Marvel comics have an obsessive equivalence in the JW brain. Batman versus The Joker is how the whole universe ticks over. The idea there is a big goody and a big baddy! These two theatrical characters loom large in every emotion of the JW (and many a religious mind) as “Totalitarian thought submissive emotions” that will defy ALL reason and sensible discussion. The subverted mind exists and even depends upon itself now thus can only recycle the stuff it has already been hoodwinked by.
You see, any and all logic, discovery and whatever else you could think to educate a human about are totally blanked out; by the emotions of FEAR and the FOOLISHNESS of misplaced loyalty (fabricated, fiction taught love). These artificial brain constructs or imprinted emotions then form a lifetime barrier to a believer to ALL information; no matter how real, no matter how true. Like a sieve mounted on a heated mould, everything will be filtered out or squeezed to fit their universal fiction (scripture) else dumped as archenemy attacks.
In essence, the JW brain has had a historical set of monster memes (ideas that most humans down the ages have been proven to submit to) redesign their feelings and thoughts to fit its own clone production line for replication of same.
It’s practically impossible to see this if you are a fully hooked follower, still going along its conveyor belt. Ones emotions still overrides the clear thinking.
I recall a warning that I experienced at my first post baptism assembly when I went over to chat with some protestors and for the first time ever found that all this witnessing we were doing was NOT for these APOSTATES under pain of my own expulsion. Silly me having thought till then they were a bunch of freethinkers ! In fact , what a naive jerk I was and had no idea of this fact or sadly anyone around me who wasn’t full of the same.
Apostacy is that term used to subjugate the human mind with fear and insanity: that any ideas other than its own are evil or born of malicious intent, not only in the short term but as some universal and unquestionable rule lasting beyond ones lifetime and on down the centuries. The very idea of apostacy, as even a concept worth acknowledging, is bereft of intelligence per se. It cannot be a kindness to any human mind sincerely wanting to learn and thrive, to be told there are questions about things it must not only never ask but also subdue its sense and thoughts about due some long dead humans having already bullied this ruling into the local communities and used it down the ages to enslave people with – either by force , grooming, emotional seduction or general deviance.
So to you who shake inside with fear at the very idea an apostate mind is threatening you I say, ” Grow up, get a grip of your own mind and don’t bullshit me with all your FOG (Fear, Obligation & Guilt).
Excellent comment, Ray Owens. And boy, do the JWs exploit the power of that term. Dare to question Brooklyn issued JW TRUTH and it’s Armageddon annihilation for you. And when JW TRUTH changes, by order of the WBTS bosses, as it so often does, re. blood, shunning, Christmas celebrations, Jesus’s beard or whatever, are the JW bosses apostates? No, they are Jehovah’s exclusive channel of communication with earthlings. How do we know the JW Gov. Bod. are the Faithful and Discreet Slave? Because the JW bosses tell us they are. No questions; that’s apostacy and the Armageddon death penalty.
One of the weirdest states of mind JW’s , not to mention many people in general, have is one of superior moral standing – as if following their own code of regulation is more highly respectable in some way. It beggars belief as to how so many people use this snake oil tactic to transplant respectability onto what are essentially lies and worse still emotionally vapid lies. Those holding belief in their lists of rulings and whatever book of historical junk they demand is “holy” are in truth bullying the rest of us with superiority feelings: making us feel obliged to feel they deserve superior respect for making up/adopting historical lies and sounding them off as if from some perfect source of universal grace. WHAT TRASH TALK and I CONDEMN IT FOR WHAT IT IS: half baked guesses by humans of long ago about things they were bereft of any real understanding and about.
This is the landfill site of historic human thought garbage we are still living under the pollution of and it seems is set to long continue unchallenged and getting away with being given totally undeserved power and kudos.
Humans who believe it are most usually the victims of monster ideas that have grown into giants most unsuspecting humans struggle to see for what they are. These BIG sets of ideas most usually do like the multinationals and high finance – browbeat the blue collar worker into kowtowing to the production line of delusions they insist is for our own good and most certainly never to be questioned: under pain of being ignored , sidelined and generally bullied out of service. Such is very much the JW community I ever knew. Brown noses with Cherry Blossom – and the higher up the more chestnut their smiles. What a load of snake oil addicts!!!
Maybe the first question you should ask Jehovah God is to open your eyes to the truth. There is with out question a God who sent his Son to die for us. But what boggles my mind as a former witness is why the people in the JW organization dont do some simple research and see how and why this Organization was started. If God sent his son over 2000 yrs ago why would he need Charles T Russell to come a little over a 100 yrs ago and start or restart Christianity. Do yourself a favor. Pray, ask and let the Holy Spirit guide you to all truth , which is not found in the NWT. Have you ever asked yourself why the JW’s are not allowed to research the history of the organization? What do you know about the man that started it? What do you know about his wife? Have you ever read any of her books? or have you heard her version of Charles T Russell? If you really want to know the truth then I encourage you to remove the shackles of deception and in faith step out and search for the truth. My heart was broken when I realized that the JWS was not the Truth but God in his loving mercy began to open my eyes and set free from the pain and heart break of that deception.
I was also abused as a child by this organization yet I never blamed God only the men involved. I Love God and I have spent my Life trusting and believing Him, despite the faults of man. Its not about weather or not God will ultimately take care of the injustice of the world ( Because he will ) The question we need to ask ourselves is ” Do we live a life that imitates Christ , are we a reflection of His Love and do we live lives that bring Glory to our Heavenly Father? Can you really look at the JW organization and answer yes? Pay attention to how anyone that is not a JW is treated and pay even closer attention to how many families have been divided/destroyed. My heart goes out to you because I know that you really love God as most JW’s do. Its not even your fault. There is a master deceiver that s really responsible for the lies. I pray that you find truth and that you will have the courage to ask God to show you.
No there was no son of divinity ever sent. Just NO! We already know humans were in Australasia 80000 years before this Middle Eastern myth even got spread around. Suppose it were true – what took it another 1800 years to get the story over there? Just nonsense. Even a child today can send a story worldwide in seconds. Some god your hoping on right there. “Erm sorry folks my mobile takes 1800 years to get around.”
Disfellowshipping is wrong, wrong, wrong…. what is just as bad, is allowing teenagers and young people to get baptized… Jesus is our perfect example. He was baptized past the bloom of youth, in his 30′s.
I long for the day for the big “D” doctrine to be removed!!! They will be judged themselves.
Do you, Peter, understand the word ‘dates’? Murderous flip flops on blood transfusion are nothing to do with dates. Protecting pedophiles has nothing to do with dates. Unless Abraham and Isaac are going to be resurrected in San Diego in some year other than 1925, then Rutherford’s idiot prophecy in ‘Millions Now Living Will Never Die’ is nothing to do with dates either. Jehovah either approves of Christmas celebrations or he does not, no matter the date. You, Peter, have been drilled by your Theocratic Ministry School only to prey on the lost, lonely and vulnerable in your mission to ensnare others into your cruel cult. When faced with those of us who know your cult from the inside, you have nothing to say. Your cult is indefensible and you must know it. Here’s to your escape!